Chris Tulino

I was only involved with Shopn2000 for 2001. I did not have NADN work my taxes for 2001. If I don't receive a letter from the IRS by April 15 of this year will I be off the hook?

There is a good description of the statute here:
http://www.wwwebtax.com/audits/statute_of_limitations.htm

According to my accountant, the date would be April 15th. I'm not sure what is meant by "assessment" of tax, but I presume the packages we received in the mail would be considered an "assessment". Therefore, you might dodge a bullet if they don't assess your taxes by April 15th.

because of your letters, i took them to my tax lady & she called irs & now has redone my taxes & i have paid them & sent it in...never thought i could wait till april 15th..i too think this is a terrible injustice, for a company to scam us like they did...

If you haven't got anything from IRS--resubmit/amend asap! IT's worth the 1000-2000 dollars. They don't take one year, but they look at your entire history with NADN.

I received my "packet" from the IRS on Jan.4,2005 with a letter dated December 29, 2004. The letter listed a contact name from the IRS and indicated I had 14 days to respond. I called the number listed and got voice mail indicating that the contact was on vacation until Jan. 6, 2005. I left a message, no returned phone call. So I called on Jan. 6th, still no answer and the same message on voice mail stating she would return on Jan. 6th. After three more attempts, I finally received a return call with no help whatsoever. She did not want to listen to any comments only stating that I have the right to appeal. ( In the cover letter, however, it appears that the IRS had already spoken to the appeals board and that they are pre-determined to make the interest and penalties stick - and we call this justice and democratic! ). So I sent my check in without signing the 4549 form and sent a detailed letter indicating my position and objections on penalties and interest via FedEx.) After receiving the confirmation that FedEx delivered the package, I called. Again, it took three calls to get someone to respond. I asked about what's next in the process and when I may expect to receive a response. The IRS agent said it would now go to the appeals office but she did not know how long they would take to respond. When questioned further " are we talking days, weeks or months?" her response was "oh definately months". Great I had to jump through hoops to get everything together in 14 days and now they have months to even confirm that the appeal is in process. Wasn't the Boston Tea Party because of taxation without representation? Guess it still goes on.

NEVER RECIEVED ANYTHING FROM THE IRS, BUT DID TAKE MY TAX PAPERS TO THE STATE TAX OFFICE TO HAVE THEM CHECK IT BEFORE I SENT IT & MY MONEY IN...THEY SAID "YES" THAT I OWED IT & TO DO IT BEFORE THEY HAULED ME OFF TO JAIL...SO I DID SEND IT & PAY IT...STILL THINK IT ISN`T FAIR....

I just faxed my 2001, 2002 tax returns and my IRS packet to Steve kassel. Does anyone know if he is able to lower or eliminate penalties?

For those of you new to this board and not sure what to do, I strongly urge you to contact Steve Kassel and get straight answers, and that includes those who have already refiled. Unless you had a CPA or licensed Enrolled Agent or tax expert familiar with the NADN situation refile your amended tax returns, you probably overpaid.

Steve has been working on these very cases for some of the victims as well as similar cases for quite some time with good success. No one can guarantee the IRS won't impose penalties, but if you do nothing or simply accept their calculations, you will most likely pay penalties and probably taxes in excess of what you actually owe. They have been documented to have made substantial errors in the packages they are sending out, so it would be to your benefit to contact Steve at least for a review.

You can find Steve's contact information as well as a synopsis of the current situation and how to join the class action lawsuit against Oryan as well as a Proof of Claim against NADN in their bankruptcy hearing on my website (click on my username below). Click on the NADN text links. Information is also contained on the previous page on this board.

Here is a link to Steve Kassel's website.

http://www.etaxes.com/skasselea/NADN_help.htm

Let's talk about the statute of limitations. First, the statute for assessments is normally three years, except for cases of substantial understate of income, which is six years and for fraud, for which there is no statute.

Second, the statute begins with the date of assessment so the statute does not always end on April 15th of the year in question.

Third, the IRS does NOT have to make the assessment prior to the three-year statute expiration, but they do have to send out the Notice of Deficiency prior to the statute expiration date.

Fourth, if you have not agreed to the assessment or if you have not extended the statute expiration date voluntarily, the IRS will make the assessment in order to protect the government's interest.

Here's the bottom line. Much of the information you read may be partially accurate, but not completely correct. The IRS does screw up and sometimes fails to do what they legally have to do prior to the expiration of the statute, but it isn't very common.

I strongly recommend against signing off on the proposed assessment and sending a check. You are giving up legal rights by doing so and you have no idea if the assessment numbers are correct.

Did you incorporate with NADN too? If so, like me, you may have been wondering who could take over being your resident agent. I found a guy (a real live person) who lives in my state of New Jersey. He is a retired high school coach and now represents a Nevada firm. I trust him and at least he is not some voice on the phone that no one really knows. See: http://www.Bob-Biegel.com to contact him.

I signed up for the "Mall for All" in Feb. 2004.
I never received any tax deductions as a result of this site.
I have all of my receipts.
Am I in the clear?
Can I deduct any of the money that I paid to NADN for the site from my 2004 taxes?

Regarding Keyword Gold/Pacific Labs.

They have called me four/five times. I also spoke to Frank and the woman. I asked them, "if you are going to put up a site for me to sell your services, and pay me a commission on the traffic you generate to that site using your generator, why then, do you need me? Would you be better off putting up the site and not paying me a commission? In fact, why not just use your hit generator system to point to your main site instead of my keyword gold sub-site? Would that not be more effective?"

They replied I did not "get" what they could do for me. I guess I don't.

Note: They may be legit and have merit if you actually HAVE a product to sell online that you EARN money on selling, as the KG/PL service fees are a marketing cost and generating traffic hits is valid (assuming it works). Otherwise, I think they are finding themselves in a position of having to pretend they are "helping" us out, when in fact, they can't.

Why would any of you pay anyone to post your site on a slew of garbage search engines that no one uses? People, learn from this experience.

I too faxed my 2001, 2002 tax returns and my IRS packet to Steve Kassel. I haven't heard back from him, yet. What will be the next move the IRS will make on me? It will be the 14 days this Thursday. What a mess and the (not so funny thing) is that I invested much more to NADN than I ever got back on my taxes!

Joseph, I've been swamped, but your contract and Power of Attorney are ready to go. The 14 days is meaningless, don't worry about it. We're contacting IRS on each case and they're so swamped, they welcome the additional time.

I have refigured my 2002 taxes (not yet sent) that claimed the ADA credit (using Turbo Tax and eliminating every mention of NADN). In a cover letter I explained that I had entered the Mall for All business as just that...a business and was eliminating the credits as advised, but did not give up my right to claim out of pocket expense in the future. My daughter was chritically ill when NADN found me and I needed to be at home to tend to her needs. I was looking to supplement my income during time off work with an on-line business. I was ripe for the picking! (NADN knew all this, because I told them and they took my money anyway, "guaranteeing" I'd make it back in just a few months! You'd have to dig below pond scum to reach anyone who does this TO someone already floundering). Anyway, after figuring my 2002 taxes (I did not even take the actual out of pocket paid to NADN for tax prep or upfront costs paid them!) I came up with a $1,000 tax CREDIT. They had figured so many things incorrectly, misadded my withholdings, etc. (and I trusted them, so did not check carefully...live and learn).

In the past I have been audited TWICE because of extremely high medical bills. Both times I ended up getting MORE back than I had paid (because I'd been fearful to claim some legitimate expenses--that is another reason I went with NADN--for their promised help in an audit). My question is this: Would it still be wise for me to send my papers to Steve Kassel prior to submitting them? (He can have the extra $1,000 I estimate I have coming back just to get me out of this *:&()0(&** mess!)

I guess I am asking the rest of you what you would do in my situation. Take my chances with what I have figured, or ask for some legal help first to ensure all is OK. Who knows? The IRS may throw out my other business expenses (from another mall I worked and actually got income from). It seems to be a "thing" with them now.

I have joined the class action suit against Oryan and want to support everyone else in their endeavors, too. We are near bankruptcy now, what with the liver transplant our daughter had and what NADN did TO us, but I still want to kick against the injustice as long as I can. If using Steve Kassel will strengthen that goal, I want in.

I was laid off from my job of 30 years and NADN also had me in their sights. I did the "whole hog" and had them do our taxes for 2002 and 2003. Then the other shoe dropped and I also became incorporated on Dec.2003. I haven't worked because of some prior injuries that were work related and ended up with a number of surgeries. All I wanted was a way to make some extra money and it did sound good, at the time! How can so many people get "SCREWED" by so few? I don't have a clue how to go about updating our incorporation and should I also take a look at the taxes that they did for me? I do know that no mention was made (on the return) about the tax write-off, ADA, that I was told about when I signed up for my few extra dollars. I would like to get in touch with someone to answer these and a few other questions that I have about getting out from under this weight I have been carrying since I found out that NADN filed for bankrupcy. Please call or e-mail me ASAP. (916) 652-9797

Be mindful Patti, the wolves look at this board as well as the sheep. If anyone who calls you I'd be at least somewhat wary of, do your due dilligence...

Good read.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1106140006241490.xml

The link above refers to an article about Al Thompson who refused to withhold taxes from his employees and then purchased a full page ad in major newspapers to advertise his refusal.

More interesting is that Al Thompson was convicted on 13 of 14 counts on Friday and will likely be sentenced to 3-4 years in jail. Thompson, who is truly incredibly ignorant, decided to represent himself in court.

Intelligence Scale:
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| Box of Rocks
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| Al Thompson
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Only problem is, this Al Thompson fella will get sentenced those 3-4 years and end up serving in the lightest jail you can think of, playing video games and shooting baskets for about 5 or 6 months, then be back out on the streets for "good behavior."

The kicker is the taxes required for the prison sentence will be a lot more than the taxes he owed.

I subscribe to daily "tax tips" from the IRS as one way to keep informed of their warnings. I found today's especially poignant. However, they forgot to stress that "even if you set up a business with a clear purpose and profit motive, if we (the IRS) disapprove of it, you cannot claim your expenses!" Here is the tip:

"Improper Home-Based Business scheme purports to offer tax “relief” but in reality is illegal tax avoidance. The promoters of these schemes claim that individual taxpayers can deduct most, or all, of their personal expenses as business expenses by setting up a bogus home-based business. But, the tax code firmly establishes that a clear business purpose and profit motive must exist in order to generate and claim allowable business expenses."

Jean,
Your tax tip quote specifically says "personal" expenses. I agree with the IRS that trying to write off "personal" expenses as business expenses is wrong however in our case we had business purpose and profit motive and we should be able to write off genuine expenses that were for setting up and running the mallforall business. For instance, I beleive putting an ad in your local Pennysaver to advertise your mall should be allowed because that expense is a clear business expense. Putting a bumper sticker on your car to advertise your mall then trying to write off every single vehicle expense because you were "advertising" your mall I beleive is wrong. This is what some of the NADN people told us to do. Some victims have reported on this forum that the IRS was allowing some of the "pennysaver" type expenses. The ADA stuff is definitely out.

I paid the membership 1900 and tax prep 3500 in April 04 then a couple of months later I received the banruptcy letters from NADN, since then I do not how to claim that money because after I paid said fees, I did not receive any services, before the bankrupcy papers arrived.

I have been using NADN Tax services since in 2000 they assisted me in a problem with the IRS when I had an "error of omission" on my 1040 due to my wife's employer changing accounting firms and not receiving January 98 W-2. During 2001, 2002, and 2003 I invested heavily in NADN/Oryan, et.al. I believe that I lost approximately $25,000 in the Bankruptcy. I also have received the IR S Notice for my 2001, 2002, 2003 taxes to the tune of approximately $45,000. On top of all this my "incorporated" online retail business (consisting of seven non-NADN/Oryan websites and five ShopN2000 or MallForAll websites) has shut down due to lack of funds. The whole relationship with NADN is documented pretty well, including two comission checks, phone conversations and other evidence. I have retained attorney and CPA and am filing for "Innocent Spouse Relief". If anyone formerly of NADN/Oryan looks at these postings, do not expect much sympathy toward your postings from people who tried to use your "fake" websites and make a business of them. I am pushing 50 now and this was my last-ditch shot at owning and operating an honest side-business. I am so saddened for the children of the Robert Bennington family. Others who may have gotten away with our monies: You may not get yours now, but it's coming.

Well, I, too, got my "package" from the IRS last evening. I had my amended 2002 tax forms with Steve Krassel to review prior to sending them to the IRS (I did my own 2001 and 2003, with no NADN input), but the IRS beat me to the punch. Believe it or not, I was getting ready to mail the 2002 return TODAY (after finishing up the last few missing links on mistakes made by NADN). Now, it is too late to save the penalties; the 20% penalties apply for "ignoring the law". Anyway, I would warn anyone who has not, to hurry and file your amendment. My penalties and interest will continue to accrue because I cannot pay it in a lump sum. You'll save yourself lots of headaches and money on deductions that only in a matter of time will be deemed illegal. I STILL say I purchased this for a viable business opportunity, not just ADA credits (although I also admit I was glad to take the credits I thought were LEGAL. I was niave enough to believe there really WAS disability access for this particular mall, and I marketed it as such). As you know, all out of pocket expenses are also being denied. I hope Steve can sort all this out for the best possible scenario. So, trying to make extra money has ended up costing us triple--what we paid NADN, what we were denied in credits and penalties/interest we now must pay as well. A long, expensive lesson for all. The problem is, I'm still not sure how I would have done anything differently faced with the same decisions (and no knowledge of the outcome). I went in honestly, and came out feeling like a wrongly accused criminal. The IRS has heard it all. They are not going to listen or change their minds for anyone, no matter how well meaning the motives. I guess I can add the $9,000 the IRS claims I owe them to the $8,000 still remaining on my credit cards to be paid off from the purchase of these money making ventures, marketing plans, etc., from NADN. Trouble is, my credit card maxes at $10,000 and my savings are gone. So I give them a lump of my retirmement funds and continue to work until I'm 80. Trust is no longer in my vocabulary.

Everyone,

Before you borrow, dig into your 401k, or liquidate any assets, contact Steve Kassel and find out what your options are. You may actually do yourself more harm by doing any or all of those things to get the money to pay the back taxes. The IRS must allow you a payment plan if you are unable to pay in a lump sum, and the plan only lasts a certain number of years, even if you can't pay it all back over that time period.

Steve Kassel also has some examples and some articles concerning Offer In Compromise and its dangers on his website, so get help before you do yourself more harm.

Thanks for the advice, Opaobie. I already contacted Steve Kassel earlier today (via email) and am awaiting his reply before acting further. I know I am better off than many, but it still all hurts, especially when you feel most of the expenses claimed (that I'm still paying for) were just. I'll give up the ADA credits gladly, but even that should not incur penalties (interest is understandable), as it was done with "sound" advice from "experts", bought and paid for (dearly).

The most common argument the IRS is using to justify the penalties is that they "posted a notice on their website" about "abusive tax shelters" and "the dirty dozen" -- I think in 2002 or possibly later, which is long after the fact. To me, that does not qualify as even making the public aware, let alone "in a timely manner". If this was as serious as the IRS now claims it is -- serious enough to impose large penalties for "neglect" on our part -- why did they not make a more concerted effort to notify the victims and the general public? Why did they accept returns at the time, even returns that were amended and refiled to ADD the ADA credits after first being filed without the credits?

I doubt very many people surf the IRS website daily looking among the thousands of links and articles for something they wouldn't have any reason to look for in the first place -- if we had known these were "abusive tax shelters" when NADN offered them to us, we would not have invested in them. I would love to know how many IRS experts or CPAs or other tax "experts" also became victims but are too ashamed or afraid to step forward and admit it.

A more effective action on the part of the IRS would have been to shut down NADN as soon as they determined they were operating an "abusive tax shelter" and notify the actual NADN victims so we could take immediate action to reverse our situation, not hide it on their website unceremoniously. Oh, I forgot, they didn't even get involved until victims began to complain and the DOJ and the FTC got involved. The IRS argument is extremely weak, and it does not demonstrate a concern for the best interests of the taxpayers -- either all of us who are paying their salaries or just those of us being victimized a second time by "IRS Tax Experts". It demonstrates incompetence that is being covered up by the misuse of power by an out of control bureacracy.

Some of you posting here have talked about keywordgold. How did that work from the tax perspective. Pacifica Labs has contacted us stating that their progam was part of the package NADN sold us but weren't able to provide specifics. It looks like everyone posting "purchased" the keywordgold. Does anyone know of this being part of the package? I cannot find anything about this in the paper records at hand. If true is there any value of trying to obtain that information from Pacifica.

My ongoing saga...

Steve Kassel is unable to assist with my NADN problems for the regular fee he is using for others because mine is quite a bit more complicated than the average one (involves many, many mistakes). He will need about 2.5 times the quoted amount to do mine, and it is money (thanks again NADN!) I just don't have. I appreciate his willingness to take it on--it is a real mess--and wish I could avail myself of the legal help, but I'm more than topped out. Can bankruptcy be far behind? Anyway, I'm going to complete my own amended return, correct all the tax errors made by NADN (about $4,000 or more in my favor on W-2 withholdings alone), write a letter stating I will pay the IRS fines for ADA for now (on a payment plan), but I am in no way admitting guilt in this matter (I bought a BUSINESS) and will not waive my rights to appeal down the road. It is scary ground alone, but I have no other alternative. I don't think legal aid takes this kind of case (whimper). Maybe Willy Nelson will do a benefit concert for NADN victims! He seems to know about IRS problems. I can't even charge Steve's fees as all my charge cards are maxed out from my daughter's liver transplant (and NADN charges), so wish me luck....I think I will need it. I hear prison for tax "avoidance" isn't so bad (smile). I still plan to check this site daily and hope to find tidbits of information you are willing to share as more develoops. I'll just look at this as saving my children from fighting over any monetary inheritance when I die...

Gary,

The Keyword Gold search engine optimizer package is separate from the malls, but since it was used to promote the malls, I doubt the IRS would allow it as a business expense along with all the other advertising and promotion business expenses they want to deny that are tied to the malls. All of us fighting to have the purchase price and all advertising and other business expenses allowed are still not sure how this will turn out, but that is where the Keyword Gold expenses come in. They are not part of the mall purchase package. They are a separate purchase from NADN.

Jean,

Don't give up yet. I am trying to get some help for you because your case is so unique and so desperate. I will contact you as soon as I have some specifics and if I need any more info from you.

Opaobie,

Thanx, I guess that means Pacifica is using information from NADN's contact list & pretending prior relationships to snare new "business". Easy to say a business relationship based on lies is why we are here.

Jean,

You should contact the CPA firm that I am using out of Houston. Your situation is very similar to mine. They are willing to work with people on a contingency basis. I am still working with them on the exact details and should have more info by the end of today to post for everyone. Try calling either Alex, at 281-497-4226 or David at 281-497-5937.

Thanks, all, for information and concern. I have called the IRS just to see what my next step is from their perspective (as if I didn't know). I still want to submit my amended return (I was honestly working on it when I got the IRS package, but had found so many errors in NADN's forms--almost like they put my name on someone else's information--I kept putting it off until I could do a thorough examination of the true numbers, one receipt at a time). I can't get it done properly in 10 days, however. And now I'm not sure even where or if I can send it, since the IRS notice and "package" has arrived. I'll wait to hear what the IRS says about my situation, but I won't go down without a fight.

When I phoned the IRS, I got a recorded message, and no one has returned the call. The errors on my NADN form are substantial, and there is no way they can deny the taxes I paid (W-2 and 1099 statements) indicating at least $4,000 in taxes I paid that were not reported by NADN (I can only say I was in the throws of my daughter's illness when I got NADN's forms, saw I had a nice refund coming and I just blindly and trustingly signed and sent them on. At the time I cared little about anything but my daughter--who is doing very well by the way, following a liver transplant in 2003. That is worth any amount of money we have to pay).

It is true I (we) don't have a lot of extra cash on hand, but my husband (poor innocent bystander in all this) and I do have jobs and can make payments--we're doing a lot of that these days. However, to mortgage our future retirement years for this is pretty hard to swallow.

Dax, thanks for the info. Depending on what the IRS says, I may give the CPAs a call, although I live on the other side of the world from them. I called my own attorney who said I should "just pay it" on a payment plan and save myself being marked for life. His contention is I could pay him a lot of money (note that...a LOT of money) and would probably still lose my fight, except for the obvious taxes on record, which he says I should get credited without him. He also indicated a big fight would cost me more than I'd ever get back. These warnings almost make me want to cave... He's a nice guy, but I feel for the most part I'm justified in a fight. I was duped by NADN, just like everyone else, including those smart IRS guys for so many years.

I still maintain my innocent, if stupid, intent in was to get involved in a business I thought would actually make me some money. The ADA credit (that I was assured was legal--I questioned them a great deal about this) was appealing, but not my main motivation, and I have no problems giving that up (with interest). However, I worked that mall as a business, regardless of the lack of profit, and the actual out of pocket expenses should be allowed and penalties waived.

But then, I'm preaching to the choir.

Did anyone else receive a US Bankruptcy report involving DOJ William Leanord?

Yes, I got one Saturday - William Leonard is the Trustee, I think. It's odd that there is only $11,221.33 in unsecured non-priority claims - did none of the ones we sent in get counted ?? Then again, there was *0* for both secured and priority claims. And only $5,012.08 in assets to be split up. :^(

Is there a possibility for a class action suit against some of the main players from NADN who took the money and ran? What about criminal charges?

I'm glad others got the letter in the mail.

Can anyone explain it to me in ENGLISH?

Based on the response above, it sounds like we are not going to get a dang thing...which is what I expected anyway.

Thanks.

I was very confused about the letter I got, too. It didn't mention any of our claims nor NADN at all, so I thought I'd got a letter in error (except that it was out of Las Vegas). Could have used some of those funds returned to pay what the IRS says we owe! Does this mean we can claim any of the money as "theft" this year (2005)?

On the related problem, I spent the weekend going over my 2002 taxes with a fine-toothed comb. I found some things not claimed that may help (and a couple small items I corrected that were NOT in my favor), but I wanted all my ducks in a row--receipts in hand. Once I submit the changes, I'm sure I'm in for a full audit! But that's OK. I expected one anyway. Just keeping on, one day at a time. I'm determined to get this behind me and move on, one way or another.

It looks as though the bankruptcy letter we all got (at least those who filed Proof of Claims) references a different case number than the NADN case. This apparently has to do with a separate filing made for the named parties (Calunan, Romulo Maningding case 04-12878 LBR). The only name familiar to me is Maningding, which was the last name of one of the parties at NADN. The Proof of Claim I filed was for NADN specifically with a case number of 03-17306 VJ.

I seriously doubt there is any hope of getting blood out of this turnip, but miracles do happen sometimes.

I have not yet received any notices from the NADN bankruptcy court or the Trustee, William Leonard, and I, too, filed a Proof of Claim according to their instructions with the correct case number on the form. I was not aware there was another case number, but with as little help as we have received from the court or the governments (State of Nevada or US), I'm not surprised. No mail today -- Presidents Day -- but if I don't receive something soon, I will contact Mr. Leonard and try to get some more information.

Are those of you who received the notice saying that the TOTAL amount to be divided among all claimants is just a few thousand dollars? Have they checked the bank accounts and other hiding places of the NADN managers? What about their personal assets? Personal assets accumulated through theft are not protected by the corporate shield, and since the IRS is determined to count every penney we paid to NADN and Oryan as "theft by fraud", the thieves should be forced to return all of the assets to be returned to the rightful owners -- us.

If anyone would like to break out the numbers and post them, we would all appreciate it.

I have taken some additional action on the offense that I will post once I receive a reply. No details to add, but I am tired of being on the receiving end of all the "incoming" -- time to return fire.

Rant for the day: Auditors are like the people who enter the battlefield after the battle is over and bayonet the wounded. We keep hearing the phrase IR"S" Tax Expert"S". Maybe we should just shorten it to only the letters in quotes and call them the "SS".

Opaobie,

I agree, it does still amaze me that the perpetrators of the situation (I mean the individuals at NADN, Oryan etc.) walk away with everyone’s money, Scott free, through wages, perks, and other payments. Those are ill gotten gains in my book and should be restituted back. Instead our government is going after, with veal, the victims of scams through penalties and added interest via the IRS. I think that if you look at the statistical profile of the victims you will find a group of people who were looking for guidance to stay legal but enjoy every deduction they were entitled to (not unlike the selling point for every tax specialist or software program now being hawked for tax time) . These people were willing to, and capable of, entering into a home business to enjoy the legal tax deductions that are extended to business. (Aside)…On the rare occasion that my wife and I can afford to go to a reservation type restaurant, I am reminded by the tables full of business people (who are obviously talking everything but business) exactly what tax write offs can do. We eat the “low end” of the menu; they eat the subsidized “high end”… Yes, going into business is inviting. Many from our ranks took a calculated business risk with retirement and/or borrowed money. That is not the type of expenditure that is taken lightly and certainly does not smack of “reckless gambling” (a.k.a. “tax avoidance”). Clearly the NADN connection, as professional level interpreters, was meant to be “IRS avoidance”; thereby not raising flags or stepping out of bounds and, in other words, sticking to the IRS code.

It irks me to no end that I see scammers get the easy end of the deal while the scammed receive punitive incarceration. It looks to me like scamming people is the way to go and trying to be on “the up and up” ain’t worth do-dee.

(End of rant support)

Applause and a big "here, here" for Gary! You said it all so well. Once again, proof that the "little people" don't have the same rights as big corporations.

The bankruptcy case about which some of us have apparently received a notice indicates, as I mentioned above, a case no of 04-12878 and the parties appear to be 2 individuals.

It is a Notice of Summary of final report and account of trustee, stating that the "estate" shows total receipts of $5012.08, Fees and expenses remaining to be paid from funds on hand of $1251.21 (Trustee's fees), $70.40 (Trustee's expenses), and $80.00 (administrative expenses for Trustee Assistant). Unsecured non-priority claims of $11,221.33 were filed and allowed.
(REMEBER - this is NOT the case file we all filed claims against).

The claims filed were from the Trustee, and 4 Banks/Credit Card serivces. Total claims on this case were $12,622.94. Trustee/administrative claims of $1401.61 are proposed to be paid at 100% and all other claimants will receive 32.175% (or $3,610.47).

I searched for the case number on the nvb.uscourts website, but could not find anything.

I'm having trouble getting stuff to post to this forum. I just completed a detailed review of the bankruptcy notice everyone is talking about and when I pressed the "post" button, I got a "website not found" notification. This is the second or third time it's happened lately. I going to try to enter the info again and see what happens.

Final Report and Account of Trustee Case 04-12878
Total receipts - $5012.08
Total claims - 12,622.94
(1401.61 from Trustee/admin comp/expenses)
(11,221.33 from 4 bank/credit card companies)
Proposed disbursements:
1401.61 (100%) to admin claims
3610.47 (32.175%) to all others

Remember, this case was filed for Calunan, Romulo Maningding - apparently 2 individuals - NOT for NADN. We probably got the notice because the people mentioned in this case were related to the NADN case (or because W.A. Leonard was their trustee as well as NADN's).

Well, apparently my first post was posted, even though I got the "website not found" message. Sorry for the duplication, folks.

Wow, I had no idea about this until I received my package in the mail. I remember the notice about NADN’s bankruptcy and was happy to see them go... now I want them back so we can have our due diligence!
I live paycheck to paycheck. After supporting my son, student loans, rent, insurance and the other bills, there is very little left. I got in that business to make money, legitimately. I had been working on another website at the time and linked many of the stores to their own page to increase visibility and to help generate traffic. I was, however, happy enough to get out of the mall though I strongly disagree with the IRS’s assessment that it was unreasonable to expect any commissions when Oryan was telling us:
“It is our objective to continue working with and supporting mall owners in generating revenue from their Internet Shopping Malls. The new release (next week) will be extremely beneficial and profitable to you with new features and additional ways to earn money. It is truly the best shopping mall business opportunity on the Internet.”

Why would that be unreasonable? It’s cruel irony that the National Audit Defense Network got me audited and insult to injury that we’re being treated in this manner.

Steve K

I finally received the same notice today, so I tried to call Mr. Leonard to get clarification. I kept getting a busy signal, so I emailed him...and CC'ed the DOJ, and My Congressman, and a few others.

I asked if this was the same case we filed POCs for since this case had a different number and only a few banks and the Trustee and his "trusty assistant" were listed as claimants, but words like "final", "total", and phrases like "if you think you got left out, gimme a call" (actually stated more eloquently in legaleeze) concerned me. If this isn't our case and we had no claim in it, why would they waste the money and time to notify us, especially if these were only the personal assets of the parties listed? Besides, it said "NADN" bankruptcy, not "Larry, Curly, and Moe" bankruptcy, so it is a bit confusing and disconcerting.

The letter stated that the Summary is posted on the Court website, so maybe someone could take a look and decide whether this is a sleeper we were never informed of or had no actual claim against, only those banks.

http://www.nvb.uscourts.gov/

Didn't someone post here once about a connection between NADN or Oryan personnel and the Wells Fargo Bank? What a coincidence that they were one of the claimants.

Hopefully, OUR case has not yet been settled because I still get requests for help in filing Proof of Claim forms. The deadline was supposed to have been last October, so time will tell.

If anyone receives another of these letters different from the one we have received, please post something to help clarify. From what I am seeing, this is NOT our case, and if we end up with about 1/3 of our losses returned the way these claimants did, we can declare that a victory.

Afterthought: Since this is the exact same letter just reproduced 17,000 times (I just picked that number for illustrative purposes), is Mr. Leonard doing the same thing Oryan did if he is charging an administrative fee for 17,000 SEPARATE letters....aw, forget it.

**** URGENT UPDATE AND APOLOGY ****

First an apology publicly to Mr. Leonard for my sophomoric sarcastic failed joke at the close of my previous post.

Next, a message of relief to all of us from Mr. Leonard. The court mailed the notice to us in error. It involves a different case, has nothing to do with us, and we are to disregard it. Our case is far from resolved, so relax and just keep your eye on the prize...and the real issue: resolving our IRS problems.

...mea culpa...mea culpa...mea culpa...mea culpa...

Opaobie,

I do not think that your analogy apology was necessary. It was very humorous. Especially when considering it in the context of what has happened in the "Chris Tulino/NADNpage - Trilogy" (God please don’t let there be a prequel). However to more accurately fit the Oryan scenario Mr. Leonard would have had to create something that would have had more of a chain letter “feel”. The Post Office would have gone, well, “Postal”, if it had to deliver the “one and only” letter to 17,000 separate addresses with only one stamp.

Gary,

Thanks, and I hope Mr. Leonard has a sense of humor.

We sent our amended 2002 forms today (the "14 days from the date of this letter" are up Friday). I corrected many NADN errors (mostly in my favor but some not) and removed ADA and Mall for All. Now we await the next IRS judgment before we know the outcome. I have a feeling this is just the beginning. I didn't sign their form of agreement; not at least until they examine my corrected return. I'm also waiting for my knight in armor (hopefully made of silver dollars) to ride in before that happens.

At this point, a sense of humor is all that can keep one going...I'm glad it is alive and well in so many of NADN's battle-weary victims. I'm also struck at how very intelligent you all are. Makes me feel maybe trusting NADN wasn't ALL just my incredible stupidity. If they can fool you all, they were just very good at what they did so cruelly. Keep laughing. It heals the NADN/IRS-battered soul!

The vulnerability they most successfully exploited was our Trust. By presenting credentials as "former IRS Tax Experts" they convinced us to "trust" them. We did, just as most people would have. Now the "current" IRS Tax Experts are capitalizing on our error in judgment and again telling us to "Trust" their assessments, most of which are full of errors.

...fool me once,....

I spoke directly to my "Tax Compliance Officer" I think she is the one who actually did my audit. I'm being charged/fined for 2003 when I never claimed anything related to NADN for that year! Another website that I'd been working on is being treated as such. I guess the schedule C has the same code on it. I think we have an agreement that if I can show suffucient evidence of this ( and I hope I don't have to justify every little expense ) my "package" will be amended. This should save me $612. It hardly makes me feel better but at least I've contacted them within the 14 days and buys more time.

Tip of the Day:

For those of you contacting your "Tax Compliance Officer-ette", Do NOT start the letter off:

"Jane, you ignorant ####!"

...just trying to be helpful. :)

Steve, what you say is interesting, as I, too, purchased and built another online site throughout 2002 and 2003 (and I can show many sales within those years). They aren't big sales, and I still had a loss with startup costs, expenses, mileage etc., but they are sales, nonetheless. I have a tax number and a state license for that site, but it is an ONLINE site. Now I'm wondering if I will have to fight to keep that as well, as I did NOT remove any of those REAL and ACTUAL deductions, only ADA and Mall for All. I could see, however, that I would never make money at it, so I closed it down in 2004. Sheeze, will this EVER end?

Are you SURE we should't start our letters addressed to "Jane, you ignorant *#&^(#?"

The individual examining my returns has disallowed virtually every single deduction I claimed for the three years, even those having nothing to do with the malls -- I think he allowed me to claim my mortgage interest. I guess next thing I know, federal agents will show up at my house and question me about tearing that little tag off my matress that says "Do not remove under penalty of law" or charge me with "Aggravated Mopery with intent to loiter".

I got my IRS package from Ann Sheehan in Colorado; called and accused the IRS of being complicit in this whole Mall for All fiasco and that they should have shut down NADN years ago, they said too bad, if the tax saving is too good to be true, it's not true. So paid $23,500 including penalties and interest for 01, 02, & 03. Filed a claim to the bankruptcy court for about $9700 against NADN last Sept. Paid Success Matrix $2200 for the Key Word Gold hit generator a year ago which yielded zero credits at Oryan. A bunch of crooks including the dead Bennington have made off with millions of our hard earned dollars only to be further insulted by the IRS. Our incompetent government drags their feet only to benefit themselves in the end.

Like, do they get a RAISE if they get more money out of us?

We need just ONE of these cases to go to court and be tried by our PEERS (with coverage by the media) not judged by the IRS. I'm willing! I'm NOT GUILTY of this! I can't believe the case would stand up! And yet you say our day in court would be before an IRS judge with IRS attorneys and no jury? What justice is that? Or... maybe we should all quit our jobs, quit paying all taxes and go to prison (in one of those "posh" tax dodger prisons), and let the government pay OUR living expenses.

Now, you're telling me I probably wasted another approximately 200+ hours digging out all my old 2002 receipts and redoing my tax forms, and I'll probably end up owing MORE than was assessed when everything is disallowed? I was doomed by the IRS from the start as well as by NADN? Shaking my head. I'm bled dry.

"... if the tax saving is too good to be true, it's not true..." Really? How about credits low income families get even if they don't pay any taxes? WHAT? Getting a refund even if you don't pay taxes or a refund far greater than the amount of taxes you paid? Too good to be true, right? WRONG! They aren't actually "credits", they are just disguised Welfare Payments that look "too good to be true" but are -- and they are funded by taxpayers like us who are paying far more than our fair share.

The IRS is in the power position, there is no real oversight over them, and they can make any rules they want, but if they want to be honest, former IRS "Tax Experts" using the credibility of their former position to ensnare unsuspecting people into a scam doesn't fall into the category of "... if the tax saving is too good to be true, it's not true..." These auditors will never get it into their thick skulls that we took every reasonble precaution, we were advised by "FORMER IRS TAX EXPERTS" who even sold us guaranteed audit-proof service, audit "insurance" for lack of a better word, and they betrayed the trust that the IRS name conjured up in our minds. The conduct of the current IRS "experts" isn't improving that reputation, either, and both their attitude and their ineptness in conducting the audits, full of mistakes on their part, only solidifies their untrustworthy image.

Having an IRS auditor pouring over our tax returns like a kid in a candy store looking for every extra dime s/he can collect, to me, DOES fall into the category of "... if the tax saving is too good to be true, it's not true...", and that's exactly how they are conducting our audits.

For anyone using GT Consultants to amend your returns, the following statement is in their agreement that clients can download from their site explaining their terms:

IF YOU PURCHASED THE ORYAN SHOP N 2000/ MALL 4 ALL WEBSITE FROM NADN,
YOU CAN WRITE OFF THE AMOUNT YOU SPENT ON YOUR 2004 TAX RETURN.

You need to ask for a very clear interpretation of what this means, because if you try to write any of the NADN/Oryan expenses as business expenses, you will invite an IRS audit for sure. If there is some way to write off these expenses in any way during 2004, it needs to be explained clearly.

This is the position the IRS has stated:

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106484,00.html

This is the pertinent part:

"...First, the theft loss deduction likely cannot be taken on the amended return for the year that the credit and the business expense deductions were taken. A theft loss deduction can only be taken in the year of discovery, and then only if any reasonable chance of recovery has terminated. Your chance of recovery from the creators or marketers of the promotion (perhaps through their bankruptcy proceeding) may be unknown for some time. In addition, your loss could not be greater than the actual payment that you made, i.e., your theft loss would not include the amount of the note that was not paid. Finally, any theft loss that is claimed is reduced by regulation by $100.00."

I hope Julia will post an explanation both here and on her website and clarify her agreement document.

Here's a few that I use all the time, and they are free.

Good Advice for Dummies:
http://www.biblegateway.com/

More Good Advice for Dummies:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/

Still More Good Advice for Dummies:
http://www.bible.com/bible_read.html

Good Advice for Dummies who can't read:
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

Re: "... if the tax saving is too good to be true, it's not true...", I mean what the heck!!! There are two simple questions, was there a viable ADA credit and were there ADA requirements/standards for websites?
Please look at (ADA) Fact Sheet 4, dated September 4, 1998, with undated cover letter by (then) Attorney General John Ashcroft at:

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/taxpack.htm

The qualifiers are to have “…either revenues of $1,000,000 or less or 30 or fewer full-time workers may take advantage of this credit.” It goes on to say “…The credit can be used to cover a variety of expenditures, including…production of accessible formats of printed materials (i.e., Braille, large print, audio tape, computer diskette)” It then adds “…the credit cannot be used for the costs of new construction. It can be used only for adaptations to existing facilities that are required to comply with the ADA.”
The mall package everyone bought had you take delivery of the main mall with later production/delivery of an ADA “modified/compliant” text version of that mall. Since the mall is nothing more than a digital recording, I do not see how an accessible format in that form differs largely from information on a computer diskette. I do not think anyone beat the $1,000,000/30 employee mark. Ashcroft’s letter, to me, is a clear enticement by the Department of Justice to pursue ADA compliance through the use of the Credit. Having an accessible/compliant website and targeting the handicapped as customers (the proverbial “captive audience”) sure seems like good business sense to me and also is not a bad way to help that segment approach “mainstream” life. Why was this on the Judicial branch to inform about tax credits? Isn't it up to the IRS to do these sort of things? Clearly the tax credit must have been extended to somebody, or was it just created to be “too good to be true”? Is it a form of recreational governmental bowling? Set ‘em up, knock ‘em down!!! (END) ………………………..To Mike-inc, I hope your “victim mindset” isn’t what had you spend $15 on the book and has you waiting patiently for the millionaire Guru to show up on Oprah for further instructions! How many $15 books does it take to become a millionaire? It is the fear of being a victim that is the emotional “dangling carrot”. Everyone plays the role of victim in some capacity. Making money by playing up to fears is a scammer’s best trick, as we’ve seen.

I just received my package last night. Can anyone give me a suggestion on what to do next? Should I re-figure my taxes and send them in? Will that do any good?

Jay, I am only 2 weeks ahead of you. I talked to my audit-ress and she told me to go ahead and send my amended taxes (removing the ADA credits, etc.) to her to review. I have not yet heard back on that, as I only sent them off this week. I also send a long letter detailing our plight and reasons why we got involved. It may not help, but I didn't think it could hurt.

Even when you KNOW it is coming, it still makes you gulp.

Jay, and everyone else who finds this website,

Welcome to Chris Tulino's Survival Camp for NADN victims. You have reached the "Communications Center".

1.Click on my name below "OpaObie" (that will take you to my website, "http://www.opaobie.com" , commonly known around here as the "Survival Camp Info Center for Victims of NADN et al"). Bookmark that site.
2. Click on the text link "Help for NADN/Oryan Victims". Contact Steve Kassle through that site if you would like a free consultation -- highly recommended.
3. Later, when you have more time, come back to my website and click on the text link "Are you a victim of National Audit Defense Network (NADN)? -- and now, the IRS" so you can catch up on the situation and follow the more detailed instructions. Time is of the essence, so do it NOW!

You should find everything you need there, but you can contact me through my site if you need more information or have questions.

...I used to think they could kill us but they couldn't eat us...now, I'm not so sure. :(

Thanks for the help. I'll get on it right away.

While we're all sitting around waiting for more good news from the IRS, I would like to urge every one of you to contact your Congressman/woman and your two Senators and ask for an investigation into the way the IRS is treating us. Don't just email them. Email them first and then call their local offices if they have one in your town; otherwise, call their DC office. Be polite, try not to be emotional, and simply explain what is going on using your own situation. The more pressure we put on the IRS, the better.

Symbolic of our present situation, tomorrow I visit my Urologist for my annual (did I spell that right?) "physical" (men over 50 should have their prostate checked at least once a year). The analogy of an IRS audit is just too obvious in my mind. :(

LOL! Yet more probes into your personal affairs. Do you think the doctor will disallow whatever he finds?

...or will doc "penalize" you with interest...

Let me guess...you will try and deduct the office visit to the urologist as an ADA related credit.

Does anyone know if the IRS has affected sanctions, disbarment or taken any disciplinary action against any tax attorney, enrolled agent, appraiser or a certified public accountant employed by or with close connections to the NADN/Oryan loop? Wouldn't you think that the IRS would clean house with those people well before they started auditing the folks that they scammed. As it is, everyone ever scammed by NADN/Oryan is a closed set and ready to be audited, basically, anytime at leasure. Those tax “professionals”, if nothing has been done by the IRS, can go on claiming their titles/credentials and lead more people down wrong paths.

Hey IRS,
I was writing while you were posting. Could you please address my questions?

Thanks for the advice, I may be able to claim some disabilities after that examination. He even prescribed some "pills" for me. You have to be careful of side effects from some of the medication these days, and this stuff is no exception. They they keep you up all night and make it really hard to sleep. :)

...back on topic, has anyone completed the audit process yet and gotten the penalties removed or any other good news to report?

Some perspective -- I have been offered a business proposition -- my own Web Hosting etc. business. This offer comes from a very respected company that I have been doing business with for several years, so I know it is legitimate. Here is an interesting part of the proposal that the IRS writer who said the cost of creating the shopping mall sites was way overblown and we were stupid to believe the figure. Keep in mind that we were led to believe the shopping mall sites were being modified to include some fairly complex software and some fairly complex features to accommodate the disabled. The offer I am considering now does NOT include those modifications.

"A professionally made order-pulling Web site! This Web site would probably take you 600 hours to build yourself. If you hired it out to someone, it would cost you well over $7,000.00."

Just some perspective.

I, also, have some more perspective. BEFORE investing in the NADN mall, I had purchased a mall site from another online business development company (Esbex). I had to pay them $5,000 up front for developing and ensuring links worked for purchases (including secure settings and merchant account) on the site, but then I had to do ALL the designing, procuring of products, site building and maintenance (including learning HTML), marketing, product inventories, ordering, mailing and business portions of the mall (AFTER the $5,000 investment). What was supposed to be more of a part time job turned in to more than full time. Then, EACH and EVERY month I also paid $40 to $80 in hosting fees (depending on how many times I called for assistance and "coaching"), $20 for wholesale membership, and $15 plus a percentage of sales to the merchant online sales company for the privilege of being able to take and process credit cards on line in my site (this also included a major background check--probably couldn't pass it now with the IRS fiasco). I had to provide photos of my office (to prove it was really there) and a schematic of my work area. There were a number of other hidden costs one does not even consider when opening an online sales business, including researching and purchasing your business URL, working hit generators or other ads, avoiding spam problems, trying to get on search engines, providing them key words, etc. I switched internet site providers about a year ago, and the costs went down some, but I was told that what I was charged up front was pretty standard. Therefore, when NADN presented me with the Mall For All opportunity, it seemed almost like a bargain. At least the price (with the promised ADA provisions) seemed well within the normal price I had already paid. I bought it because it was something I could market on my existing site and (I thought) add a new dimension to that site as well. I worked the other mall for 3 years (it contained a dedicated page linked to my Mall for All site), but although I had a number of sales, I made very little money. The overhead proved to be too high, despite my charging 30% above my costs for items. At any rate, the company is still in business and is offering a legitimate service, albiet a bit expensive for month-to-month low-end entrepreneuers. But, again, in comparision, the price to NADN seemed very reasonable and offered yet a broader foundation from which to base future sales. I maintain that if our malls' (out of pocket) expenses are not deductible as failed businesses, then why are others with similar scenarios? If online malls are not legal businesses, the IRS needs to disallow all stores or other companies who have online sales sites, Ebay included. Let's see THAT pass!

JJ,

I agree, as always, that because this was bought to be a business and because the modification/tax credit appeared genuine, that the prices didn't seem to be out of whack. This is the old "theory vs. reality" rub that we are stuck with. I invite you to look at http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/NADNtromotionandmemo.pdf.
for the government's side of the story.

Getting nailed for intentional behavior is fine but it just doesn't seem right that the IRS will penalize you for being Royally scammed.

It is easy to be verbal about the IRS for something you do not like. Let me tell you that I do like this just found change:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=133732,00.html

...it may help some from our group.

The article you mention is a good change, but there is a "however" in that article, Gary:

"This (reporting your own taxes owed) puts taxpayers who come forward voluntarily on the same footing as those we have pursued, which is only fair," IRS Commissioner Mark W. Everson said. "But it's important to note the suspension RULES ARE DIFFERENT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE ENTERED INTO DESIGNED ABUSIVE TRANSACTIONS."

I suppose I am jaded, but I believe the IRS will view EVERYONE associated wtih NADN in the "different rules" category. I hope I'm wrong.

JJ,

I hope you are wrong but I think the IRS is very clear on how they view us: they are the victims of our conspiracy.

What a rip-off the IRS has sent me a letter stating that I have to pay back the deduction including penalties, I did this to start-up a home based business, all the monies spent to set-up NADN and Oryan cost me that much for the first year, not including local advertising and flyers. After getting nothing (no hits to the website)for a year I did not file for the next years tax deduction. So it now will cost me double...
Now another company is calling again guaranteeing a minimum of $45.00 per month return. My tax advisor CPA who did my return and said it was OK then, now does not want anything to do with it. now...

I have received a number of requests for the letter I have been sending to Congressmen/women and to Seators. One victim was told by a tax advisor that the reason we are being abused by the IRS and not getting any help from government or our own members of Congress is that we are too few and not very vocal. Maybe they need to hear from us, and in greater numbers. Feel free to post this letter or one like it where it will get exposure, and please send a letter to your own members of Congress.

For your own recovery and to resolve your own tax issues, please take the steps outlined in the letter I sent you, and keep following the Comments board. Hopefully, we will all survive this ordeal, and some good will come of it if not for us but in the form of tax reform. If you have not done so, please contact your Congressman/woman and your two Senators and urge them to investigate both the circumstances that allowed NADN to "run free" for so long and ensnare hundreds of thousands of victims but just as importantly the current reaction by the IRS to further punish victims of "former IRS Tax Experts" a second time. Here is a letter I have used, but it needs to be updated to include the situation as it now exists with the number and severity and unfairness of the ongoing IRS audits. Personalizing it with you own situation could give it more credibility.

You might want to update to include the current situation with the number and severity and unfairness of the IRS audits going on now, but use your own judgment. You could give it more credibility by including your own experience with your own audit without revealing your personal information or income level, etc., that you don't want shared with the entire world if they make a public issue of it. Feel free to include the URLs and invite them to visit my website and Chris Tulino's Comments board or to contact me if they would like.

My synopsis page:
http://www.opaobie.com/Synopsis.html

Chris Tulino's Comments site:
http://www.christulino.com/archives/000125.html

Hope this helps.

Bruce
http://www.opaobie.com

Suggested Letter to Congressman or Senators:

Find and write to your Congressman here:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Find you senators here:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Use the form on the website and then follow up with one you send from your email address using their email address listed on that page.

Here is one I sent last July. We need to update with our current situation.

Thu, 22 Jul 2004
caseworker@#####.senate.gov (replace ##### with name of senator)

Dear Senator #####,

We desperately need your help.

I have posted a more complete synopsis at the following URL. I can supply any additional information you request.

http://www.opaobie.com/Synopsis.html

Below is a short version of our situation and request for your intervention.

Thousands of former clients of the National Audit Defense Network (NADN) now face financial ruin at the hands of the IRS and are seeking your help because they mistakenly placed their trust in an organization created by former IRS tax experts and even endorsed by officials at the IRS and by the Nevada BBB. Unfortunately, besides driving thousands to the brink of financial ruin, NADN has now driven its founder to suicide -- June 20, 2004 -- Father's Day, if I remember correctly.

As you may now be aware, NADN has been charged with defrauding its clients for several years through various tax schemes and in mid April of this year filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection in Las Vegas, Nevada. The first hearing was conducted on July 8, 2004. Progress is posted on the US Bankruptcy Court, District of Nevada website. NADN had initially filed for Chapter 11 protection last year and continued to operate and defraud clients for another year before being driven to liquidation this year by a $1 million claim against the company by the Securities and Exchange Commission, injunctions from the US Department of Justice (DOJ), suits by the Federal Trade Commission, and complaints filed with the consumer fraud division of the Office of the Nevada Attorney General. NADN had in its possession thousands of income tax returns for clients, those returns are now in the hands of the Trustee, and former clients are being charged $100 to retrieve their own documents in order to be able to file 2003 income tax returns.

As a result of NADN's dishonesty, thousands of ordinary people were defrauded of thousands of dollars and are now subject to large back tax assessments along with substantial penalties and interest. The IRS has made a preliminary ruling that they may not even claim any of the losses as business deductions or losses. Many of them will be ruined financially, and many will be forced into bankruptcy. The former head of NADN, Robert Bennington, committed suicide on June 20th, 2004, and the US Department of Justice has filed injunctions against NADN and Oryan Management, the company NADN used to create and sell online shopping malls allegedly modified to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) in order to allow the owners of the malls to claim a credit on their income tax returns. A portion of the proceeds from the malls was supposedly donated to the disabled in the zipcode of the malls. The concept of ADA compliant online shopping malls was actually legitimate, but, unbeknown to the mall owners, it was never implemented as promised. Guaranteed "audit-proof" tax preparation and counseling as well as legal representation by NADN during an audit were included in the price of the mall, the offer came from verified former IRS tax experts and business advisors, so thousands of unsuspecting, honest investors purchased malls. Most of us reinvested our tax returns into new "modifications" to the malls for up to three consecutive years and only learned by chance from an internet website that we had been defrauded, even after filing tax returns for the 2003 tax year -- tax returns that were accepted by the IRS without question and are only now being reexamined in light of the discovery by the DOJ of the fraud.

I respectfully ask that you and other committee members as well as House members initiate an investigation into the conduct of the IRS in not only allowing this financial and tax disaster to happen but also in exacerbating the damage to taxpayers by disallowing legitimate claims for expenses and losses and by imposing unfair penalties and interest.

Thank you for your time,

[Your name and address and any other contact info you wish to include]

Craig, join the very sad, very large NADN/Oryan/IRS ripped-off club! So sorry. My story (and most of the other victims') is just like yours. Second wave: we're all being hit by the next gaggle of vultures who make pie-in-the-sky promises of wealth to come. Fool me once...

Steve and Opa: thanks for keeping me laughing through the tears.

Help Anyone? I need the contact cover sheet for Examiner Ann Sheehan. My IRS package was missing it and I'm assuming someone else has her also. My EA needs to be able to contact her and we'd appreciate it greatly if someone could email or fax it to me at theCARD@att.net THANK YOU!!

It looks like others believe the ADA credit is alive for modifications to a web site:

http://www.buffaloaudio.com/marketingsecrets.html

http://www.buffaloaudio.com/title26.html

http://www.buffaloaudio.com/price.html

I wonder if they have customers that have qulified!!!

The IRS website could use some improvement, so maybe.....

...buffalo chips would be a step up from what's on it now. :)>

Does anyone know if NADN is still fighting this ruling of disallowing all the ADA credits? I doubt it since they are in bankruptcy, but I know they were fighting at first. Wouldn't it be a hoot if all the ADA credits were ultimately proven to be legal? Of course, Oryan never provided them, so don't hold out hope.

Has anyone been able to talk to Steve Kassel? I have been trying for a couple weeks, but no response. I have 90 days (less now) to settle up or appeal, and not sure if Steve can be of any help or not.

I'm sorry, but due to the tremendous number of inquiries we are receiving, I'm only able to give advice to those that are hiring us to handle these cases. The fee to do so is $1,200 and the details are contained in the attached information sheet.

Steve Kassel, EA
eTaxes.com
1101 El Camino Real, 2nd Floor
San Bruno, CA 94066
800.684.6168 (phone) 650.742.7771 (fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Schwarz [mailto:cschwarz@keyplastics.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:40 PM
To: 'info@eTaxes.com'
Subject: NADN Oryan SCAM

I received the paperwork from the IRS and then after my tax accountant did
not know what to do I went on-line to try to find some answers, I spent 2800
or more to NADN/Oryan plus flyers and advertising and never received one hit
from my website. After the first year I filed taxes and receiving nothing
but a loss to my first time home based business attempt I now have to pay
$4,200 back, I have to pay again?

What can I do? How can I trust anyone, it was legal at the time, I checked,
and double checked, no one could tell me this was wrong, I checked the IRS
website and read the form, and now I feel like I'm being treated like I am a
fraud.

This was advertised on "Detroit Talk Radio" 97.1 "all of the time, for
months, where local lawyers have there Sunday call-in show. Can't they be
held liable for false advertising?

Craig

Let the (buffalo)chips fall where they may :) ... (I feel a RANT coming on…) Yes the IRS site could be improved, but Title 26 section 44 absolutely makes it look like modifications to a website should qualify for credit, especially when guided to it by hired tax experts. The buffaloaudio.com site shows the conclusions that can be drawn even without the aid of NADN. Further the government seems to accept that you can buy something when you can click though to a vendor at this site: http://www.section508.gov/index.cfm Is that not affecting sales or commerce? The DOJ said that the “…website doesn’t sell anything—it merely directs users to merchants and then collects commissions if the users buy anything”. If something was bought then something was sold. The commission is for participation in the affecting of a transaction. I believe that is called marketing or brokering. (rhetorical…) If a salesperson sells an item, does that mean that the store didn’t? Or does that mean the salesperson is just selling the store's stuff? In a way isn't that like selling stolen goods? It's so confusing!!! The DOJ also labeled the website as “not” a ‘“place of public accommodation” under the ADA’. Look under definitions for “place of public accommodation” @ http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/reg3a.html#Anchor-36104 see #(5) “…or other sales or rental establishment;” So the argument might be it’s not “bricks-n-mortar”. Well the argument is that it shouldn’t have to be, because the government already recognizes the crossover to cyberspace for Electronic and Information Technology Accessibility Standards, look who’s in charge @ http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/508standards.htm

I am not a spam-bot, but I play one on TV!

Just received my audit notice. I called up the auditor and she said that they impose that 20% penalty to "...encourage you to tell your friends that this is what happened to me. Don't get in that situation."

I would say that the IRS is criminally negligent for letting this go on as long as it did. Is there any way to prosecute John Howe for preparing the audit returns knowing they were completely wrong? What is his address?

Not a spam-bot

Well, now THAT is a lovely way to get your victims to comply: send other victims out to do the work for you! Saves a lot of effort. Fear and intimidation by big brother is much easier second hand! Sorry Aaron. I got the same kind of message 3 weeks ago when I called about my IRS notice. However, I find it interesting that I had to call them THREE times before someone called me back!!! Should have called collect, as I was commanded to call them within 14 days from the date of the letter (which I got 6 days after it was sent, leaving only 8 days for compliance).

I still sent in my amended forms after verifying where to send them (this sounds like a crock, but I was planning to send them the day I got the IRS notice. HONEST! But I'll never try to convince them of that.) I have not yet heard back on the "review" of them, however. I fixed numerous NADN mistakes, taking my tax liability down several thousand dollars, which I'm sure will not sit well. I'm sure I still need to suffer the full wrath of God for the terrible crime of trusting an "expert" and not realizing it was fraud! I know I'll have to prove every penny in the amended form, but I'm ready to do so.

I have a question for you. Those of you who have already been debited by the IRS, did you cooperate with the Washington attorney investigation like I did? I was contacted by the office and volunteered much information, and I'm wondering now if that made my name more prominent and more ripe for audit. The cooperation certainly was not meant to be rewarded, but I didn't expect to be penalized more for my willingness to help. I DID (and do) want NADN out of business and punished!

I keep thinking this is a nightmare. It is, but one from which we won't soon awaken. Do you think the auditors are paid a commission for whatever they disallow?

Aaron,

I am confused as to what your auditor is trying to make you advise your friends with that 20% (fear factor) penalty. Does she want you to advise people to never seek and pay for tax related advise/representation from a tax professional? Would she have you tell people never to go into a business that might claim a tax credit?
The IRS might not be “criminally negligent” but their scare tactics are absolutely responsible for driving many people to NADN and other tax professionals in the first place… A quote from NADN’s Robert Bennington, originating from a September 24, 1997 (PBS) NEWSHOUR TRANSCRIPT addressing the seriousness of charges that the IRS had become to aggressive in auditing and collecting back taxes. This pertained to the Senate Finance Committee's examination … “It’s a very serious problem. We have literally thousands of people who contact us and in dire straits. They’re presumed to be guilty upon accusation by the IRS, and they don’t know how to prove their innocence. They’re threatened. They feel badgered, and it really is a pervasive problem where people live in abject fear of the IRS.”
We keep beating our heads against the wall, because we know that this was supposed to be and was touted as a pre-existing, operable, website/business/income source that could be modified to take advantage of a genuine, and large, tax credit that would create an immediate positive cash flow.
Hypothetical: What if this isn’t about the website/tax credit thing at all? What if this is about being viewed as supporters of tax reform? Outside of our little “sphere of trouble” NADN, it seems, was involve in pushing tax reform quite heavily. What kind of job security would an auditor have if the Tax-Code were set to be phased out?

You can always try to attract the attention and support of organizations pushing for tax reform. What better "poster child" could there be than an NADN victim who was first defrauded and set up for disaster by "former IRS Tax Experts" and then finished off and financially destroyed by the current crop of "IRS Tax Experts"?

...give 'em a call and an email and maybe even a letter.

Americans for Tax Reform: http://www.atr.org/

Gosh, I just got this tip from the IRS. I believe now that getting a tax refund without paying taxes is (and I quote) "just too good to be true."

IRS Tax Tip 2005-45, March 4, 2005
Millions of Americans forgo critical tax relief each year by failing to claim the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), a federal tax credit for individuals who work but do not earn high incomes. Taxpayers who qualify and claim the credit could pay less federal tax, pay no tax or even get a tax refund.

Opaobie has a good point. Maybe we should encourage IRS agents to fight for tax reform and then make up their lost income by investing in a great on line mall.

I wonder if we will qualify for the EITC after we are all broke. Maybe we could simply have the IRS deduct the EITC from our penalties and back taxes and then just bill us or send us a check for the difference.

I am in disbelief as I read some of the comments here from people trying to defend the so-called legitimate modifications of the websites. There is no other way to put it. You people (and I mean it exactly that way, you people) are delusional. There is NO legitimate business. There is no legitimate modification. This was a scam whose only purpose was a tax loss program. Period. The only chance we have to get penalties abated is to plead ignorance and rely on the fact that you haven't been a part of foolish tax loss programs in the past. Yet, when I read some of the drivel I am reading here, I wonder if anyone should have any empathy or sympathy for your financial losses.

Mr. Krassel,
I believe you have misinterpreted the rantings of "we people" on this site (a most welcomed outlet for those of us who were duped by NADN). Even an individual with an I.Q. of 7 would know by this time that there WERE no legal ADA modifications and there WAS no legitimate business. What we are trying to say (and continue to maintain) is that YES we WERE stupid to invest in what turned out to be a tax fraud, but that we did so in ingnorace, trusting in advice from what we believed to be tax experts. Many are now trusting in you for the same reasons. (And putting faith in the knowledge you have that they do not.) That is what we did before. OF COURSE you would know these were not legitimate business investments, because you know the tax laws. Unfortunately, we did not and we got taken by these so-called experts. We are angry and we have been hurt financially and emotionally (it isn't easy to admit your are stupid and it isn't easy to lose so much money because of it). However, when we plead "ignorance" to the IRS we are told things like "if it seems too good to be true, it is." We then point out (often in this forum) that there ARE entitlement programs the government has, so although we were naive to fall for this scheme, there was a basis for us to do so. If someone can get a tax refund while not paying taxes, then why would we necessarily disbelieve the ADA we were told was legal was a scam? We are also told "the costs to develop this business were excessive" so we should have known better from the costs. We then point to other legitimate web developers whose prices are very much in line with what we paid NADN and Oryan. We are NOT justifying the business and trying to take the credits. We are trying to justify WHY we were so stupid to believe it was a real and legal investment. I can only speak for my own motivations, but I WANTED a business. Yes, I'm angry. Yes I'm bitter. I was stupid and mostly I am agry at myself for believing, but it is human nature to try to point out WHY I believed in NADN and the ADA credits. We are not justifying the BUSINESS. We are trying to justify (if only to ourselves) why we got fooled in the first place. Did we miss the cues? I for one checked out NADN and got A+ reports on their sterling reputation. Did we believe like a bunch of dump turnips what could not possibly be true? What more could we have done to protect ourselves and still take advantage of REAL tax breaks that we thought were honest and legitimate? We are trying to find out what we did wrong and what we would or should have done to avoid this. In this forum we share horror stories of being victimized by NADN and being made to feel criminal for trying to create a business, with yes, a very appealing credit attached--but a business nonetheless. I realize "ignorance of the law" is no excuse, but it is the only one I, personally, have. I believed. I wanted a business. Yes, hindsight is very clear, but I was duped, and I am embarrassed. I am trying to justify, if you would, being so stupid. How could I? I am trying to find out what I missed along the way. Pointing out the reasons we were fooled should not be misconstrued as trying to justify taking ADA and Mall credits. Those efforts are dead and gone. We just want to justify, or give rational reasons why we got taken. We have tried to point to other instances that made us believe what we were doing was not only a legitimate business, but for me, it appealed as a way to help disabled as well (even if I got paid to do so). You will be paid to help those in this trap, and I know your efforts are very appreciated. How is that so different that what we THOUGHT we were doing? Helping those who need it and getting paid to do so is a very legitimate undertaking. To indicate we deserve what we got is cruel. The American Dream is to be successful and make money. We tried to reach for it. We failed. We are now being punished twice (or maybe three times) for trying. It is a hard pill to swallow. I, for one, am trying to analyze exactly what I did wrong. Trouble is, with the information I was presented, and not knowing the outcome I now have, I'd probably have done it again. Allow us some self pity for being so duped. And allow us a little effort to justify why we did such a stupid thing.

Sorry...Mr Kassel (typo in your name.) My apologies.

Well, Steve, I am probably one of those people that you are referring to. Believe me, I understand totally and with hindsight the “business” and “modification” reality. If you look closely to what I have said you will see that there are some pretty darn good explanations as to how a state of induced ignorance existed. The only reason that you are seeing a defensive posture is that it looks like the IRS & DOJ flat out think that everyone who did “business” with NADN/Oryan should have easily known what was going on. That conclusion on their part, Mr. Kassel, is absolutely not valid.
For example, Eileen J. O'Connor, Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department's Tax Division said "People ought to use their common sense: the fact that a scheme is advertised on the radio or Internet, or sold by a large company, doesn't make it legitimate…" in the April 14, 2004 DOJ release. How could “common sense” have prevailed when earlier her boss Attorney General John Ashcroft put this ADA Tax incentives packet on the Internet:
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/taxpack.htm
Please tell me that if experts pointed you to that page, as proof, that you couldn’t conclude, as many did, that the modification would apply.
The following cached Ashcroft document from the oryan-biz website still exists and was meant to show how Ashcroft was pushing the ADA:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:FdOY0JuhNhoJ:www.oryan-biz.com/Ashcroft.cfm%3Fp%3DDMI+Oryan-Biz&hl=en
If you look way back through the earlier pages at this site you will see people complaining about not making profits, pointing out problems that Oryan would not correct, and eventually the mental metamorphosis that brought out the reality that we now understand and you take for granted.
Since I first saw your name “Steve Kassel” I’ve been wondering if you were the “Steven Kassel” in this court document:
http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:5h84JnA53l0J:www.cjonline.com/indepth/renaissance/courtdocuments/factfind.pdf+NADN,+FTC&hl=en

If this is true then you were involved with marketing and selling competing products like those of National Audit Defense Network. Care to comment?

I just now came up for air after a very grueling week and noticed we are starting to get a little crazy. I plead guilty to adding to the food fight, and I apologize for my lack of professionalism and immaturity. The last thing we need to do is start fighting among ourselves or needling those who have offered to help us. Believe me, I understand and share the frustration. Maybe we could all step back and take a deep breath and refocus on the real enemy: NADN and Oryan and the criminals who defrauded us without conscience.

Coincidentally, I visited with my State Representative last night, and he mentioned a case prosecuted in Kansas that may be the same one or similar to the one posted above by Gary. It seems that those others listed in the document Gary posted were not doing anything wrong, only the Renassaince group and the main player Michael Cooper. I think what you posted is the other people's statement of fact showing they were in compliance with the law, but I only scanned it quickly. If Steve Kassle wants to comment, that is his business. My only hope is that we will continue to work together for everyone's mutual benefit and try to get through our audits and punitive assessments as quickly and painlessly as possible and remain united in friendship and civility toward each other. I'm only one voice on this board, I can't tell anyone what to say or not to say, so everyone is free to say what they want. I just plead with everyone to keep your eye on the real issues and problems we need to solve and focus your energies on the real enemy.

..nuf sed?

I am writing in response to Steve Kassel's posting in which he states:
"I am in disbelief as I read some of the comments here from people trying to defend the so-called legitimate modifications of the websites. There is no other way to put it. You people (and I mean it exactly that way, you people) are delusional. There is NO legitimate business. There is no legitimate modification. This was a scam whose only purpose was a tax loss program. Period."

Yes Mr. Kassel, it was indeed a scam in more ways than one. Like so many others, I am one of those who fell for it too. I trusted that the so-called Tax Experts at NADN were telling me the truth. I believed this was a legitimate home-based business; and as a retired former NYC employee, I honestly thought I might be able to produce some part-time income from the Mall through patience and perserverence and advertising. The ADA credit was not my motivation for buying a Mall.

I signed on to NADN to do my taxes in September 2002. Numerous phone calls later, and after considerable persuasion, I purchased the Mall in December 2002. At the time, I actually thought there was only one Mall with three different modifications required to make it completely handicap accessible.

Shortly after receiving my contract, and returning it to Oryan Management, I contacted NADN to learn how to promote the website. They referred me to Oryan and so I contacted my "client rep", a man named, Trey Croom, to try to get info on how to work and advertise my new business. Needless to say, Trey was less than helpful saying only that I could make posters and hang them in places that catered to handicapped individuals. This first call was the beginning of a string of calls to Trey over the next two years and I never did get satisfactory answers to my questions.

I did however do word of mouth promotions to family members, friends and even acquaintances. I actually generated two sales. The total commission on these (which I did not receive money for) was about $3.00.

As tax time rolled around, I mailed my tax forms in to NADN as they requested and for which I had paid nearly $400 in September. Because I did not operate my "home-based business" in 2002, I never claimed any business related expenses. Therefore when NADN did my taxes for that year the only inappropriate item claimed was the ADA Credit (which I am now more than happy to return to the Government).

Of course, like some of my new friends here at this posting site (all of whom are themselves victims of this scam), I believed that my lack of experience in business might actually be the cause of my problem so in September or October of 2003 when NADN telemarketers called continuously, I did in fact, purchase the "second year" modification. Incidentally, I did not get a new zip code so I honestly thought a second "modification" was being done to my existing Mall. During this same phone call, I also purchased a "Business Plan" believing I'd finally figure out how to generate sales from the site.

I can tell you that the second year modification and business plan was only purchased after numerous phone calls from NADN and only after I continuously expressed my concerns that I was not able to generate revenue from the Mall. I recived numerous reassurances that this business plan I was being sold was the answer to all my problems. It would "guide me" to marketing the Mall and to making profit. In fact if I followed the plan I'd make money! I was also told numerous folks were already realizing profits from their Malls. When I brought up the issue of the Promissory Notes I was told I could pay off my Promisory Notes just by having folks click the Banner Ads for NoMo Odor, NADN, and Gemini Dynamics? I could even do it myself. $2.00 per banner right off the note!

Well, I got my "Business Plan" in the mail a few weeks after the Purchase was made. It was a small booklet certainly not worth the $1000 I had paid for it. I read it but it wasn't much help. I live in NYC not Van Nuys, California so it really wasn't of much use to me. Frustrated, I continued word-of-mouth advertising asking friends, relatives, and others to visit the Mall and buy products or services or simply help me pay down my notes by clicking the banners. IU also began keeping track of banner hits at least from relatives and friends.

I had also been told by the NADN reps that a portion of the proceeds of all sales made through the website would be sent to help the disabled and having been in social work most of my life, I always thought helping others was a noble cause. The only problem was even with word of mouth advertising no one was doing any shopping.

About a month after recieving my plan and shortly after the Mall was "re-designed" my computer went bust. This was around October 2003. So I wasn't able to do much between October and November and even through part of December 2003. About mid-December, after trying unsuceesfully to fix my existing PC, I was forced to purchase a new one. My daughter (who is in HS) and I share the use of a PC. She needs it for school and I of course need it for other reasons including my on-line "business". I also help my wife with Inventory Spreadsheets, Memos, and other things for her job.

In late December, shortly after I had purchased my new PC, I went to visit my newly "re-designed and improved Mall website" and noticed I couldn't make purchases. I also noted that searches for specific items produced outrageous results! I contacted the infamous Mr. Croom who insisted that my problems had to do with my Norton Anti-Virus Program. Well, being a non-technical person, I again called on friends and relatives and aquaintances to see if they had problems navigating the "improved" website. Some did; others said they had no problems or only minor ones? So I believed that what Trey was telling me might be true except that I was now concerned that anyone running Norton Anti-Virus would not be able to use the site.

Between Decmeber 2003 and January 2004, I received numerous calls from NADN. Each caller listened "sympathetically" as I complained that my website wasn't working and each promised to help me resolve my problems. Some cordially took my complaints and said they would try to assist all the while trying to sell me the third year modifification. The more agressive ones made subtle "threats", "hints", "suggestions" that if I didn't "buy" the third year modification by January, the IRS would not look favorably on my Mall Business at all and would suspect I was only in this to get the ADA Credits. I was expected to buy the third year modification even though the Mall I owned still wasn't working. I was also told I had to get a new Zip Code for this new Mall another "IRS" rule.

So Mr Kessel, I debited my credit card once again. I was, after all, in this to run a legit business so I didn't want the IRS thinking otherwise? And, even though my Mall wasn't working properly I made the purchase. Nevertheless. I still kept calling NADN and Oryan to try to get my Mall "technical issues" fixed.

I recieved so many calls from NADN reps through January and into February tht I began to suspect something was not quite right. The new calls seemed like desperate attempts to convince me to purchase "hit generators" to "drive thousnads of customers to my website". The reps seemed oblivious to the fact that my website wasn't functioning. I actually began raising my voice to some. I emphatically told them I planned on making no further purchases until the "technical problems" associated with the Mall was worked through. I was forwarded to Client Resolution where I got no client resolution at all.

It was about this time that I also began getting "hints" that there were problems between NADN and Oryan. These hints began showing up in my e-mails from Oryan and through my phone contacts with NADN reps.

Just to let you know, I never purchased the Hit Generators. I might have been stupid enough to do so if the "technical issues" with the Mall had been fixed; but, in my mind, sending 10000 new customers to a website where a vase of flowers cost between $500 and $1000 didn't seem right. Oh yes, and if you searched for a PC the first one on the return list cost $1,000,000.

Needless to say, I did not sign the last contract when it arrived; but neither was I able to get NADN to refund my money because my "30 days" had passed. Instead, they wanted me to apply the money to the hit generator which I refused!

So in desperation, in February and March 2004, I wrote certified letters (2 each) to both Winston Coolidge and to Robert Goetsch (NADN and Oryan) detailing the problems I was having. Neither responded to the two letters each I sent them.

I also sent my 2003 Tax Package in early March to NADN's tax divison and on April 15th when the competed returns were not sent back to me for my signature, I phoned the IRS to obtain an extension. About a month or two later and after numerous calls to NADN, I finally received a letter from Marie Orie, NADN's Tax Division that an extension had been filed because they recieved my package "late". I was not yet aware of the bankruptcy etc.

In early March 2003, totally frustrated and desperate, I contacted the IRS Fraud Division stating I sensed fraud. I told the woman I was speaking to about all the issues I was having and my inablity to get any resolution. At the time I was aminly concerned about the monmey I was had already shelled out and the existing Promissory Notes that could never be paid off. I still did not know about the on-going investigation etc.. The woman at the IRS who took my call said they would look into it and let me know. Within a week or so of filing my complaint with the IRS I discovered, while browsing the Internet, that I was not alone. There were so many of us. I was amzed and wanted to kicjk myself for being so dumb. This was also when I learned about the DOJ investigation. I immediately contacted the DOJ and when they asked for copies of everything I had, I naturally sent it to them. I also wrote certified letters to the State of Nevada and State of California Consumer Affairs and filed with the Bankruptcy Court also.

Despite my stupidity, and naivity, I must have a Guardian Angel watching over me because NADN never did do my 2003 return. In fact, I consider myself luckier than most of the folks at this forum. I've only lost about $12000 to NADN. I may now owe the IRS and State of NY a total of about $4500 after interest and penalties are attached but even this is tame when you consider the plight of others. In fact, as I see it, this is actually a bargain when you consider the fate of others here.

Of course, I am now using other "tax professionals" to prepare my taxes for all three years (amend 2002 and do 2003 and 2004). I could do the taxes myself because my 1040 and Schedule A is pretty straight forward and I have receipts for everything, but I've decided to let the "Professionals" do it until this mess gets cleared up.

One more thing, I have always paid what I legitimately owe the government in taxes. In fact, in many instances I'm sure I overpaid!!! So when I got in this mess, I didn't do it to de-fraud the government. I did so believing, truly believing, I was starting a home-based business.

I honestly believed that perahps over the period of a few years I could generate anywhere from $5000 to $20000 a year in part time income from sales of products through the stores in the Mall. Getting the ADA Credit was a plus. It was not the motivation for purchasing the Malls. And I didn't think the start up costs for the business were outrageous. $10000 per Mall over 7 years seemed pretty tame to what other things cost these days.

The "you" people you refer to are hard -working average folks who wrongly trusted crooks. We got burned. But it seems that when you are a crook you get treated better than we have been. It almost seems like the so-called trusted business folks that make all the money are the real crooks and they seem to get away with it. Look at the CEOs at Enron and how the average employee of that company got screwed out of ther pensions? Look at the folks at Lucent Technologies who inflated the stocks and then left with the profits in hand? Look at the insider trader scandals perpetrated by the Mutual Fund Houses. What I find amazng is most of these folks go on about their business without ever paying any consequences? I believe Winston Coolidge, Robert Geotsch and the others involved here are still walking around with our money!

The fact remains, that honest folks who get screwed by clever scam artists (former IRS Agents no less) can expect to be screwed again by their government (the IRS). How ironic is that?

Opaobie,

Of course we are keeping our eyes on NADN & Oryan, but obviously Steve hit a raw nerve with his statement. He is a knowledgeable guy, I am happy that he gave us free advice, but from Craig’s March 2nd post, the “free” has stopped and is now being offered at $1,200 a pop. Pure of intent or not we are fertile grounds for anyone looking for clients to represent.

If we have learned nothing else from the NADN/Oryan ordeal, we have learned to question advice from “tax experts”. So I ran a search for Steve when he first came on the scene and found that Kansas court document and saw the opportunity to ask the question in my last post. That peaked my interest again so I ran some more searches today. These are of interest:

http://www.quatloos.com/tax_people_case.htm

http://216.239.63.104/search?q=cache:vUAn0WvGlT4J:www.mlmlegal.com/images/affidavit.pdf+%22The+Tax+People.net%22&hl=en

http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv04721.htm

http://www.cjonline.com/indepth/renaissance/stories/072300_taxes.shtml

http://www.etaxes.com/steve_kassel_ea_press.html

Thomas Steelman Sr., from Renaissance The Tax People, pleaded guilty in a case which authorities said was “pyramid scheme that markets bogus tax-reduction plans.” His sentence was to be on the “low end” of the sentencing scale “if “ he cooperated with the rest of the suit.

The Steve Kassel from Renaissance The Tax People was “a tax expert for ABC's "Good Morning America," the New York Times and CNN's Financial Network”

The Steven H, Kassel from etaxes.com was also on “Good Morning America”, was in the New York Times and on CNN’s Financial Network. This is probably just an odd coincidence.
But something that gets me wondering is this passage from etaxes.com…“We have first hand knowledge of this scam as Steve Kassel was approached by promoters from Denver pitching this scam several years ago. In fact, we were some of the very first people in the country to learn of this scam.”
So why did Steve not go public and stop this scam in its tracks?

The question that I would really like an answer to is, "Why did the IRS let this go on for so long even after some victims filed amended returns ADDING the ADA credits after first filing returns without the credit?" The IRS had a golden opportunity to raise a red flag then, but instead they cheerfully approved the amended returns and sent out the refund checks. Where were these "expert" auditors then? Also, if the IRS has been so far ahead of the curve on "abusive tax schemes" and the "dirty dozen", why did they never reject tax returns that were being filed with the suspicious credits included from 2001 through today? The IRS should be wearing the larger Dunce hat, not us. We trusted experts to provide us with the advice, services, and products we purchased, but we are only amatuers at this business. The IRS has the EXPERTS.

I was willing to pay a premium for premium expert service because I had made a number of bad financial decisions on my own. I was employing the very advice the IRS is giving us now, "consult with experts".

...this is really getting old.

Yes it is getting old, and I agree that many would not be in deep predicament had the IRS done their thing in a timely fashion instead of this late, 20/20 hindsight, thing we are now seeing. When you look at the scams at “Renaissance The Tax People”, NADN/Oryan and others you do see similarities. You see individuals that moved from the IRS to the public sector, people that are enrolled agents, CPAs and Tax Lawyers. Maybe individuals in the IRS don’t go after the private Tax pros (gone bad) for fear of tainting themselves against finding a job in the private sector. Or maybe that conspiracy theory about this being an operation to drum up “business” for the IRS is true.

I got a terse email at my home from Mr Kassel regarding some of my comments on this forum, so I wish to make a public apology. First of all, I am sincerely sorry that I wrote anything that could potentially harm anyone's chances at proving their ignorance in trusting NADN. That was never my intent. My comments about ADA credits being proven legal were said in jest and in an attempt to diffuse a very tense situation (in my own life as well as that of others). I never seriously belived or hoped that would happen. It was a joke (but obviously not a very funny one). Mr. Kassel, you told me I have a serious problem, and you are certainly right about that. Although the problem is not that I am taking this lightly or diluding myself into thinking any of this Mall Investment is or ever will be proven legitimate. I know there is no NADN. I also now know there was no basis for taking ADA credits. I know as well as anyone that it was a sham. I am paying dearly for that knowledge. I get it. I have for months. But I thank you for the free legal advice. I also want to thank Chris for this forum, but now I will be quiet as I continue to work through this problem on my own. (Opaobie, this is my way of stepping back and taking a breath--thanks for your personal encouragement). I wish you all luck in your ongoing IRS battles. I sincerely hope you do not get victimized yet again.

Let's make a few things clear. First and foremost, I have a business to run. It's not my job to play babysitter for those that find themselves getting themselves into tax jams. Second, I have extensive information on my site about tax scams. Do you know how many tax professionals do that? I can name them on one hand. Third, no one has to hire me. If someone has a qualm with my demeanor or the way that I choose to do business, find someone else to represent you or better yet, handle the problem yourself.

In 13 years of practice, I've never once begged for business and I surely won't be starting now.

Then, there's this gem, "So why did Steve not go public and stop this scam in its tracks?". Well, let's put it this way. I thought it was so ridiculous that no one would possibly buy into anything so absurd. I hadn't heard about it again until 2004. As I said, stop blaming other people for your mistakes!

Steve,

Your March 5th posting angered others and myself. My original question about your association with “Renascence The Tax People”, though genuine, had an ulterior motive and was there as a ploy. I wanted to see if you would “defend” yourself like the people here who have become defensive about their situation and the rationalization that goes with it. You fell for my ploy, with your above defensive posting. The thing is, I knew it was a ploy and didn’t tell anyone. Gotcha !!!!! So let me digress with more defenses relating to your March 8th posting, and then apologize.

I did not see anything about Renascence The Tax People’s pyramid scheme/scam at your website. Had I seen anything about it, I probably wouldn’t have written my second posting. Oryan, said it was legal as you can see at this cached FAQ site:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:_3fUtLteNcwJ:www.oryan-biz.com/FAQs.cfm%3Ffile%3DFAQs%26p%3DNSCN+Oryan+Management&hl=en

Question” Is it legal?

Answer: “Yes. We have presented this tax plan to tax attorneys who have rendered their opinion that this tax plan is legal. Recent court rulings as well as newsletters from the IRS further support this tax plan’s basis.”

NADN & it’s network of Tax professionals, including EAs, backed that up. NADN was paid to ensure there were no “mistakes”, how can these “other people” not be blamed. If this was so obvious, why did everyone including the IRS not catch this back in the first year and stop it. They missed it so how could non-professionals not.

Sorry for getting your shorts twisted, I hope this reality check has done us both some good. I respect you input and hope that I haven’t put you off by trying to ground you out a little.

Gary, if you wish to play games, go for it. I'm not the one in this mess. You are. If you wish to blame others for your problem, go right ahead.

One additional point. I am not giving free advice anymore because I am picking up roughly 10% of the potential NADN cases that call me. Giving free advice to 90% of the callers and emailers is bad business.

Have you contacted your Congressman and Senators yet?

http://tax.cchgroup.com/news/headlines/2005/nws3905.htm#1

Senate Set to Approve Bankruptcy Bill

The Senate on March 8 invoked cloture on the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Bill of 2005 (Sen 256) by a 69 to 31 margin, setting the stage for possible final passage by the end of the week of March 7.

With cloture protection, debate over the measure is capped at 30 hours and only germane amendments are allowed. The prospects of having the bill signed into law vastly improved after the Senate defeated an amendment offered by Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y. that would have barred bankruptcy protection for anti-abortion protesters. The vote was 46 to 53.

Sen 256 essentially mirrors the bankruptcy bill first approved by the House during the 108th Congress, but was later rejected because of the controversial Schumer amendment. The latest version represents the fourth attempt in eight years to overhaul federal bankruptcy laws.

The bill would make it more difficult for consumers to avoid repayment of debts under bankruptcy protection, as it would subject them to a means test to determine their ability to pay. In addition, the measure includes several tax provisions that would:

(1) simplify the calculation of interest applicable to tax claims;

(2) simplify the process for filing claims by states for certain fuel taxes;

(3) provide greater protection for holders of ad valorem tax liens on real or personal property;

(4) prohibit discharge under Chapter 13 of the Bankruptcy Code of any debt for fraudulent tax payments; and

(5) set the priority for tax claims.
House Passage Expected

In remarks to reporters on March 8, House Minority Whip Steny H. Hoyer, D-Md., said that bankruptcy reform legislation would likely pass the House with an overwhelming majority. Hoyer said that Democrats would not vote as a block on the legislation, although he expected most Democrats to vote against it. He predicted that the measure would win House approval with over 300 votes.

By Jeff Carlson and Stephen K. Cooper, CCH News Staff

• I have been ripped off as well.
• I did receive the packet from IRS FY2002 taxes and was given 14 day time to pay and I called the IRS rep and got it extended for a month.
• DOES ANYONE HAVE WILLIAM A. LEONARD'S PHONE NUMBER AND CONTACT INFO?
• Also I did receive the Bankruptcy Court’s letter reg case: BK-S 04-12878 LBR. Why don’t we see our names on it and the amount of refund we can receive? Who do we receive the amount from?
• What is the proof of claim and do I need to file proof of claim before I can get the money?
• Does it help to go on the site listed on Bankruptcy Court’s letter nvb.uscourts.gov to know how much are we eligible to claim as loss and how much are we going to get back? Who do we get the 32% money back from Trustee or Bankruptcy Court?
• What happens if you pay the amount off or if you try to negotiate the amount with IRS?
• Can someone Please reply to the forum asap, as you know what I am going through. I would really appreciate it.

It is a shame that ANYONE involved in this NADN business is using Steve Kassel's services. How big of a jerk can one actually be? Here we are, thousands of dollars lost, and he gets on this forum to explain our stupidity. Continue to boast stud! Get a life!

JC,

Check your email if that is a valid email address. Any more questions, scroll up or just email me back.

Congress raising taxes?

We are facing the largest tax increase in history unless citizens across this nation take action!
That's why I signed a crucial petition to stop tax increases.

Grassfire.org has launched this "Taxpayer Freedom and Fairness Petition" to build grassroots support for real tax and Social Security reform that does not raise our taxes! Please take a moment to read this petition and join me in signing.

http://www.grassfire.org/59/petition.asp?PID=8280241&NID=1

Steve:

You are not a lone voice in this position. Thank you for stating the obvious. I was not involved in the scam, but I do know one of the major figures and cannot believe he got away with this.

Steve,

You called us “delusional”, our comments “drivel” and said, “… I wonder if anyone should have any empathy or sympathy for your financial losses.” Those are very strong words. Strong words, strong defensive reactions. If you don’t want them, don’t incite them.

It wasn't game play nor did I consider myself sparring with you. You are right, I cave, and I accept the blame for hiring tax professionals (With superlative credentials I might add). The stupidity in that is astounding. Never again, you’ve converted me!! It's Microsoft's Money and TurboTax Deluxe programs for me! Great advice. End of subject.

Dear NADN / Oryan victims.
I came across the following website that offers a "free" tax analysis to help you with your IRS tax problem:
http://www.thetaxsite.com/form005_2649.asp
I am not endorsing this site. This is only an FYI. Maybe someone wants to try it and report back to the forum. It states that you need to have at least $7,500 in tax debt.
Regarding Steve Kassel, I think he is being a little bit too insensitive. $1,200 for his service is not "chop liver" considering the amount of money many of us have lost. I would think he could come up with a common defense that would fit a large number of us for allot less than $1,200. Also, I think he should represent Opabie for free.

Bubba,

So this guy you know "got away" with lot of the victim's money and is not being investigated? Of course, the money is all "gone." He may have gotten away with it - for now.

Opaobie,
Some people have become abusive with Bankruptcy. I've seen it and don't like it. In fact I've known people that seem have a ball with it. As rumours go, it has been part of their finacial planning. They get the toys , go on the trips and every "X" number of years start setting up for the next Bankruptcy. As always those people are the ones that cause the help, for people who realy need it, to be done away with. Bankruptcy has taken on some interesting institutional aspects. A friend of a friend had trouble getting credit because he was so far in debt. After filing bankruptcy he was able to get a new car loan, a snowmobile loan and refinanced his mortgage. The lending institutions knew that he could not file bankruptcy again for 7 years, and he was no longer a big credit risk. These are the rewards of filing.

I do not like the way the bill you posted is going, but I do agree that something needs to be done with back to back bankruptcies. Those people are using our safety net as a trampoline. It drives the cost of everything up.

Gary,

Thanks for the extra info on bankruptcy. Any aspect of new bankruptcy legislation that removes a reasonable remedy and further punishes people who have been driven to ruin even though they tried to practice sound financial planning would concern me.

Any kind of cheats should be dealt with harshly, but I thought that was why they conducted a hearing and evaluated the circumstances so a case could be decided based on its own merits, not a cookie-cutter "one size fits all" mandated action. The court should be able to deny protection to crooks while preserving the rights and property of honest people who have simply failed or been driven to ruin through the criminal acts of others or some unforeseen disaster.

Too much legislation mandates what must happen regardless of extenuating circumstances and doesn't allow the judge to use common sense or render an informed decision, which is HIS responsibility as he interprets the law, so too often the "Law of unintended consequences" prevails.

What I have voiced concern about is how the legislation should be written, but I am certainly neither a lawyer nor a crook -- is that redundant?

Opaobie,

The scariest thing is what is on the horizon. You’ve already cited the largest tax increase in history. Mix that with record gas prices and the added transportation cost which drives the cost of almost everything up. Couple that with the many refinanced mortgages that could exceed the value of the collateralized properties when the housing boom stops and, what can I say, you’ve got a situation ripe for personal bankruptcies. This bill looks a little too preemptive to me. So the question would be, what the is ulterior motive?

As I told my Congressman and both Senators, they need to be attacking the CAUSES of bankruptcy, not the REMEDIES. Elininate the NEED for people to seek bankruptcy, help us prosper instead of adding more legislation and regulation that drives up our cost of living, and many of the SYMPTOMS they keep trying to fix will go away. Solve the ROOT CAUSES, stop tinkering with the SYMPTOMS.

In my audit package, I found a laminated card that the auditor must have accidentally mixed into the envelope when he gathered all the paperwork to mail to me. It looks like a card they carry with them when they travel because across the top it says, "IRS Auditor's Pledge for Traveling at Government Expense". Looks like a "Code of Conduct" card.

Anyway, here is what it says.

When Traveling on Government Business, I will Not drink...

...but if I do drink, I will NOT get drunk...

...but if I get drunk, I will NOT stagger...

...but if I stagger, I will NOT fall down...

...but if I fall down,...

I will fall FACE down so no one can read my nametag.

Steve,

Justice will be served at some point and just because one has gotten away with something does not mean this is the end of it.

I am just glad I did not get involved in this fiasco.

By the way, can anyone name one modification that helphed the disabled? If you are blind or deaf how did these websites help you?

Well, Bubba, since my mother had lost most of her sight before she died last November, and my grandson is hearing disabled, had Oryan made the modifications we paid for, both of them would have been able to access the malls using the software on the computers we bought for them. It worked fine for websites that were actually configured to operate with their software.

Any more insulting questions to pour more salt into our wounds?

Bubba,

I invite you to look at My first post(March 13, 2004)at an earlier page here with Chris Tulino:

http://www.christulino.com/archives/000043.html

Like many others I was looking for answers as to why things promised and/or contracted for, through or with NADN/Oryan, weren't lining up with what was bought and paid for. The "Text Only" version was never a fully operational modifiction of the main mall. Many complaints were made online about that. It was implied or people were specifically told that a special "reader" was required to interpret the modifiction. In fact, IBM "reader" software was advertized on the early version of MallForAll. You will see in my posting that I found the "Bobby" page analyzer and brought the issues into the open. To try to answer your question... While the “text only” modification did not meet contractual requirements, and did not fully meet accessibility standards, large portions did comply with accessibility standards. Those portions were as “readable” by special equipment/programs as any other web page with compliant format. Therefore, though incomplete, and not to contract, the modification did allow impaired individuals to navigate and utilize search features and access (or click to) compliant “store” websites.

From what I saw the text-only version of the mall was compliant for most standard readers like IBM and Jaws. It was nice that those that used the programs were able to find lists of stores, but they were not able to use the programs at the actual stores since they were not accessible. Halfway didn't always cut it.

1. Bought a total of 3 Malls.

2. Got the IRS 'package' 3 weeks ago.

3. Through a family connection, contacted absolutely top-notch tax-attorney in Sacarmento, CA, with lots of IRS appeals experience. I sent him a brief explanation of the NADN/Oryan debacle and the first 10 pages of the IRS docs in a PDF file.

4. Simultaneously contacted J.K. Harris Tax Consultants (www.jkharris.com) and spoke with a 'Tax Consultant', reviewing all pertinent details.

5. BOTH independently told me the same thing. Best opportunity is for penalty reduction in Appeals process. If you are broke, really broke, you have a good chance for Offer in Compromise. Otherwise plan to *pay*.

6. I contacted the Examination agent and indicated that I wanted to pursue the Appeals process because I thought the penalties were unmerited. I did my homework before Mall purchase and I am an IT professional. I manage web servers for a company with 2500 employees. I bought the sites based on the *promise* of ADA compliant sites in the future!

7. The Examiner said to write a letter with an explanation as to why penalties (line 17a) should not be levied.

8. I wrote then faxed a very respectful letter to the Examiner explaining the above and asking for *abatement of penalties*.

9. He contacted me and indicated that the IRS accepted my explanation and abated penalties (with reduced interest based on penalty abatement!). This knocked off about $3000.

10. They sent the new package with the reductions.

11. I took ~$7500 against my home equity line of credit and another $7500 from my kids college stock fund and sent them a check.

Lessons and observations:

1. I accept 98% of the blame for being *victimized* by the scam. (It hurts but I'm moving on; life's just too short.)

2. I have absolute trust in the J. K. Harris consultant, who charged me nothing by the way, and the $300/hr Tax lawyer in California who also charged me nothing and told me to save my money by not retaining him since I could probably do as well as he could by simply going to Appeals. As I've indicated, I didn't even have to do that.

3. Don't get scammed by legal outfits on the web promising BIG reductions in you IRS *adjustments*. Suck it up - you're going to have to pay. The sooner you do it the better.

4. Don't let any of this keep you from "smelling the flowers", stroking your cat or dog, or spending quality time with your spouse and kids. Worse than all the resulting financial woes is letting this experience rob you of the simple joys of living.

------
Much Grace and Peace ...

Ron in Alaska,
Thanks for letting us know your "good" news; it is encouraging to read the process you went through. It was very heartening to find out that your tax advice was “free gratis”; you could have easily been soaked for additional money by even more tax professionals with cookie cutter type representation. It is ironic that the tax trouble you were in came from “paid” tax professionals and the way out was through “free” service. I’m wondering if your tax guys did the free help because they were embarrassed for their profession or just as a random act of kindness. Either way it sounds like simple, solid advice. Again, thanx for sharing.

Virginia,

My replies to you keep bouncing. Email me with a different email address if you can.

Some good reading.

http://www.smartmoney.com/taxmatters/index.cfm?story=20030327

For anyone considering deducting any losses associated with NADN or Oryan purchases or other costs, please read the following article from the IRS.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106484,00.html.

"...the [Internal Revenue] Service's position is that this transaction was entered solely for tax purposes."

Only one exception is needed to disprove a theorem. I offer two. Keep in mind that NADN offered credentials from former IRS Tax Lawyers, auditors, CPAs, and caseworkers even in their advertising material, leading potential clients to trust in them based on those credentials.

1. One victim was recovering from a bankruptcy discharged in 2000 and had no need for a "tax shelter" -- there was nothing left to shelter. He and his wife felt they needed professional counseling and turned to NADN for expert advice because of the legitimacy of the nationally syndicated radio programs they were sponsoring and through the nationally recognized newspapers carrying their ads. NADN was endorsed by then-current members of the IRS and listed with the Chamber of Commerce and favorably reported by the Better Business Bureau of Nevada and in "Who's Who" in Nevada. NADN was one of the largest businesses in Nevada. Their founder was a regular member of a panel on Public Television as an expert on IRS issues. NADN offered a complete package including a "guaranteed" substantial revenue stream in the online malls. Believing these were prudent steps to take to protect them from any further disaster, that guarantee along with the guaranteed audit-proof tax preparation, audit representation, and on-call assistance convinced them to pay the premium costs for the package deal. Tax returns claiming both the credits and the (now-discredited) 1099s showing profit were submitted for years 2001-2003 and were accepted by the IRS without question, leading these victims to continue believing they were in full compliance with all laws. Once the "problems" began to surface at NADN and with the malls, they made numerous attempts to demand a refund and have filed a Proof of Claim form with the NADN bankruptcy proceedings and have joined in the class action lawsuit against Oryan Management.

2. Another victim was trying to raise funds to pay for a liver transplant for her daughter and told NADN of her needs -- she, too, had no need for a "tax shelter"; she desperately needed revenue. They defrauded her anyway. Once the "problems" began to surface at NADN and with the malls, they made numerous attempts to demand a refund and have filed a Proof of Claim form with the NADN bankruptcy proceedings and have joined in the class action lawsuit against Oryan Management.

I have yet to receive one email or phone call from a single victim stating the reason s/he entered into the contracts with NADN and Oryan Management was to evade paying taxes. I have received thousands saying their intent was to make money with an online business. The "guaranteed legitimate" tax credits and the promise that a portion of the proceeds from sales through the malls would go to the disabled in the zipcode of the mall were just additional incentives, nothing more.

Therefore, the "position" statement from the IRS article linked above is factually inaccurate. It presumes a motive without any evidence to support it; in fact, all the evidence presented proves just the opposite. It is an insult to the hundreds of thousands of honest victims of a scam perpetrated on them by "former" IRS Tax lawyers, auditors, CPAs, and caseworkers who created and worked for NADN.

...and for the icing on the IRS cake, our losses are frozen until all the legal proceedings regarding NADN and Oryan Management are completed -- which will undoubtedly be several more years.

No matter how you plan to write it off, you cannot do so until the year the loss is discovered and the exact amount is determined. Since the NADN bankruptcy and any lawsuit against Oryan may not be settled for some time to come, and the loss would have to be reduced by the amount of any recovery, you will not be able to claim the loss until the year those issues are settled. And for one parting dig from the tax laws, a theft loss must be reduced by $100...the same amount it cost to get our records back from the bankruptcy trustee.

...does anyone else feel like we are living in a "Twilight Zone" nightmare?

After the Steve Kassel ripping, I’m a little gun-shy about sounding like I’m defending the MallForall/Shopn2000 websites as a business. But you know me, I’ve gotta put forth the idea that we thought it was entered into a business first, and why. A good part of the why is lack of evidence to the contrary. The tax pros (NADN) that were hired had many government WebPages to point to that tended to support where they were heading everyone with this plan. I’ve posted those sites sporadically and redundantly. We all pretty much know without saying that the IRS had no negative info posted until their hindsight material started showing up.

Of course all NADN plans had tax-based overtones, that was their line of business. I do not think that anyone could be naïve enough to think that a tax credit could be had with out a real business. That part was clear in the existing government ADA literature/WebSites that NADN had available to point to.

As of today, there are various “Affiliate Programs” being presented, arranged and sold on the Internet. I do not see any of them saying that you “must” be selling something on your website to utilize them. I see no warnings against this practice, as a business, at the IRS site, other than the virtual mall info addressing the NADN/Oryan, specific, problem. If I were researching affiliate programs, without knowing what I know, I doubt that I would “get” the correlation between a virtual mall and an affiliate program.

Again, when you perform the service of listing a store’s link at a website in return for a commission on any sales, it still looks like a business to most people.

Nobody doubts today that the mall business as created by Oryan and NADN was a scam. Nobody thought it was a scam at the time thousands of investors bought into it. Even the IRS did not recognize it as a fraud for the three or four years it was operating, even after examining thousands of tax returns and auditing and approving thousands of amended returns where the credits had been left off and then the returns were amended to add them. The IRS with its 20/20 hindsight is still not looking ahead and protecting taxpayers from the new scams being hatched and perpetrated every day, they just wait until someone else brings it to their attention and then go after the victims. It they would spend as much effort trying to protect taxpayers as they do punishing them after they have been defrauded, we would all be better off.

here, here.

Sure the IRS missed it, who else but a network of tax professionals would be capable of pulling wool on them? How could we not miss it at first?

It makes you feel some exoneration in knowing that the folks posting here & elsewhere (you know who you are) sensed something was wrong with the websites/tax credits and pushed the whole thing into the open. If that hadn’t been done, how many more years would this have gone on until eventually found? At what expense then? How many more would have been hurt? Financially broken? You might call it shooting yourself in the foot, but it was the right thing to do. A lot of us gave the information to the DOJ that helped them stop this scam. We are all F---in’ heroes. Stupid, tax code ignorant f---in’ heroes and don’t you, anyone, ever, forget it.

Now pay “the man”, you’ve made your stand, I think “the man” will understand. If he don’t, or if he won’t, he’s long since lost the quote, “to ere is human”.

"Book 'em, Danno, Malfeasance 1"

...I'm in a good mood for a change. Don't worry, like bad food, it too, will pass.

The link to the IRS article above will not work even though the URL is correct. It is best to go to irs.gov and search for the title of the article "Misuse of Disabled Access Credits - Virtual Mall Websites" with the quotes included.

...funny, that IRS link was working fine when I posted it just the other day.

...you don't suppose we've embarrassed the IRS into yanking it, do you? ..... !!!!!

A search as suggested finds two links:

Misuse of Disabled Access Credits - Virtual Mall Websites - Questions and Answers
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106484,00.html

Misuse of Disabled Access Credits - Virtual Mall Websites
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=124324,00.html

So does anyone here have any negative comments to Steve Kassel's service offering? I'm considering using his service to assist me in handling my audit to hopefully decrease my total amount owed, but I'm gunshy due to the deceit we've all been victims of. Just want to make sure I don't make another poor choice.

Thanks,
Snookered

Snookered,

You are looking for negative comments about Steve Kassel. He might be a good EA, but I copped an attitude about him when he attacked people here. To be clear, this is not meant to be a continuation of that chain-o-crap, but to address your query. His attack brought out some interesting, character type, observations that you may wish to consider:

March 2nd, Craig posted that Steve would only be giving advice to those hiring him for $1200. Steve's March 9th posting tended to confirmed that. So why, as of this posting, does he still have the “Help for NADN/Oryan Victims” & “Free Tax Consultation“ shortcuts side by side on his home page? That seems a bit disingenuous.

March 5th Steve said, “The only chance we have to get penalties abated is to plead ignorance and rely on the fact that you haven't been a part of foolish tax loss programs in the past.” In that posting he chided us for maintaining the exact basis on which such ignorance was actually built. Then he turned around on March 9th and said, “ I thought it was so ridiculous that no one would possibly buy into anything so absurd.” That statement from his belief structure pretty much says that he thinks there was no way possible for anyone to be ignorant in regards to this scam. In that context it sounds like a risky bet, with your money, to follow his logic and present it to the IRS.

Steve also said that, “I have extensive information on my site about tax scams”, then indicated that he could count on one hand the tax professionals that are/were scammers. Extensive? Does that mean that NADN did not have a network of Tax pros? Were you "not" scammed by them? If not then one could conclude that you weren't ignorant and have no defense.

I believe there were many tax professional/scammers associated with NADN/Oryan. I’m not sure what Steve's other hand was occupied with but I have counted one handed before when the other hand was in a brace. The thumb becomes 6, 11, 16, 21…

I'm not seeing any success stories from any of Steve's NADN/Oryan clients yet. To be fair, that is the kind of proof you really need. Just remember Ron in Alaska's posting above, his bottom line speaks for itself.

To All,

My response to spending $1200 for an EA who just thinks we are all pretty stupid is this: I paid a local CPA to prepare my amended returns for Federal and State after receiving my notice from the IRS. His charge to us was less than $400.

I have not posted for quite a while, since I hope we are done with the IRS for now. Will wait to see what the future brings as far as being able to ever claim the losses, etc. My only suggestion to all of you is to check out a local CPA, and see what they can do for you. They are also authorized to deal with the IRS.

BTW - He said we should not feel bad about being taken in by this scam. It can happen to anyone under the right conditions. He said even he has been taken in by scams in the past. You may also want to check out some of the latest postings on RipOff Report. There was a posting there from a litigation attorney who got taken in just like the rest of us, and even talked a friend of his into buying in. If the IT people, attorneys, and accountants can be snookered, I guess I just feel like I made a "big" mistake now, not that I was "just stupid". End of comment.

NG

Another approach:

I handled my OWN 2002 amended returns and the subsequent IRS contacts (I don't recommend this to many, but I knew of numerous errors NADN made in my return). It was scary ground, and I was pretty nervous doing this alone. I sent in my amended return (I had been working on) AFTER I got my IRS notice--didn't quite get it finished before the package came. So I called and verified where to send it and was told to send it to the auditor listed in my package to review. I also sent a very long, polite letter of explanation of my reasons for trusting NADN and for getting involved in what I had hoped would be a business to help pay for my daughter's medical bills and my time off work for 6 months while she recovered from a liver transplant. I also mentioned in my letter that since she was disabled and too weak to shop outside the home, the Mall 4 All was very appealing to me. I wanted to provide something SHE could enjoy as well. I apologized for my ignorance in the scam and hoped that the amended return would be sufficient for this review. The auditor reviewed my amendment, accepted the changes, and I ended up owing less than the $2500 Mr. Kassel was going to charge me for his representation (After NADN and medical bills, I didn't have the cash to pay him, so I went it alone, very timidly and with lots of nervous reservations. But I had no choice. I only had $1,000 available from an inheritance).

Originally, I was being billed over $9,000 for back taxes and penalties, but as my tax liability went down with the additional deductions, so did the penalties and interest. (I still had to pay both, but far, far less because of NADN's stupid mistakes).

As I said, I don't recommend this to most unless you DO have errors on your return. But it is something you can do if the deductions are on your side. My legitimate deductions that were not claimed by NADN (medical travel, some deductible interest, rental business expenses, etc.) were over $6,000 (plus $3,000 in under-reported tax withholding from my W-2s. I told the IRS agent honestly that I never checked this addition error as my daughter was undergoing liver failure when all this was going on and frankly, taxes were the last thing on my mind). I guess I should thank NADN (thank the snake?) for doing such a shoddy job and ultimately saving my cookies. I must say this is the ONLY thing they did right in my life.

When I sent in my amendment, I was sure of my ground and went in ready for a full audit (I was prepared for it with all verification), but the forms I submitted were reviewed and accepted as submitted (each change was explained in detail on my explanation page, which turned out to be 3 pages long). In addition to eliminating the Mall 4 All and ADA credits, I even changed a couple things NADN claimed in my favor which meant I would owe more taxes. I was totally honest on the forms, even when it went against me.

I KNOW it is scary territory. I was thinking they would disallow everything even though I had receipts and proof, but if you know what you paid and why, you can stick up for yourself. Just don't plan to claim ANYTHING to do with NADN/Oryan. The IRS agents assigned to check our forms aren't really the enemy, even though it feels like it at times. They are just doing their jobs. Sometimes we feel they are out to get us (me included), but honestly I think in another circumstance any of them could have been in our shoes. They are just people, too, who have been assigned this task.

I'm relieved this episode is behind me (I sent the approved signed forms with a PIF check yesterday). Now I can sleep, smell the roses, pet the dog and be thankful NADN did such a lousy job on my 2002 return--thankfully the ONLY year they filed for us. I can also thank providence for my daughter's successful liver transplant and her ongoing health. Even if my involvement with Mall 4 All did not pay for any of it--in fact, quite the contrary, it still was a major success. That, alone, is worth anything I had to pay. Although I will be paying off NADN/Oryan's charges on my visa for a long, long time, life after this mess will be much more cautious, will afford far fewer luxuries, but will still be very rich in what matters most...

Jeanne,

After reading of your frustration, fear and travail throughout this forum, I am very happy that your final result was so positive.

I, too, decided to deal with the IRS "on my own", even without the aid of a CPA. Since I never allowed NADN to do anything but "review" my completed tax returns (highly unlikely they even looked at them), I filed my amendments for the 3 years the ADA credits were claimed before anyone (I believe) received an audit notice or packet from the IRS. I never received either, and hope that I won't hear any more from them.

Just one note of caution for everyone: claiming the ADA credits reduced your state tax liability as well as your federal. Don't forget to file amended state returns as well (even though the states might not be as aggressive in auditing).

Bev is right. Thanks for the reminder. My state has no income tax, but I have been told that once you are audited by the IRS and changes are made on a back form, the IRS will contact your state's revenue department with their final report. Not sure that is accurate, but don't forget to walk through the local part of this tax maze.

...and then there is the City tax (for those of you in New York and any other places that have city taxes) and possibly County or Borrough taxes and any other taxes that may have been overlooked.

... Then there is the tacks tax. Which is a tax on thumb tacks, generally a sales tax in most states (excluding US Tropical Possessions). You cannot write off the cost of the tacks nor the tax on the tacks as a business expense for your online shopping mall, it would be, shall I say, tacky.

Anyhow, My wife and I finally got “the packet” from the IRS. Preliminary glancing says it is about what was expected. I’m gonna do the line-for-line this weekend. Gut feeling…I will probably reluctantly pay with some sort of written explanation of the original intent being a business. They can take my money, but they can’t take my pride. Besides, I can’t afford Mr. Fancy Pants and pay the IRS. To be sure, it would be nice to see those penalties dropped due to the unintentional nature of the beast.

The light at the end of the tunnel might be a train coming at you!!!

Gary, no need to worry about what you owe the IRS. You should be able to make a very good second income as a standup comic. I thoroughly enjoy your wit (and intelligence)!

I highly recommend this website. Bookmark it and sign up for their daily newsletter.

http://www.accountantsworld.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?page=newspage

...and these are the people calling US stupid and gullible.

http://www.accountingweb.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=100682&d=815&h=817&f=816&dateformat=%B%20%e,%20%Y

Auditors Show IRS Workers Too Willing to Cooperate

AccountingWEB.com - March 18, 2005 - Fake computer technicians who asked Internal Revenue Service employees to provide login and password information were able to persuade 35 workers to cooperate, according to a new government report.

Treasury Department inspectors, posing as staffers from the information technology help desk, called 100 IRS employees and managers and said they were trying to fix a network problem, the Associated Press reported. They asked the employees for their login name and to temporarily change their password to one they provided. Those who complied with the request violated IRS rules, which bar employees from giving out their passwords.

"With an employee's user account name and password, a hacker could gain access to that employee's access privileges," said the report by the Treasury Department's inspector general for tax administration. "Even more significant, a disgruntled employee could use the same social engineering tactics and obtain another employee's username and password," auditors said.

The test was done to find the human flaws in the security system that protects taxpayers' data. When the test was done in 2001, 71 employees out of 100 cooperated, versus 35 this time.

The employees gave various reasons for complying with the request. Some said they did not suspect foul play since they were having network problems at the time; some said they wanted to be helpful to the tech staff; still others said they couldn't find the caller's name on the global IRS directory, but complied anyway. Some got approval from their managers before they would cooperate.

IRS employees have since been instructed to notify security officials if they get calls seeking password or login information.

http://www.accountantsworld.com/desktopdefault.aspx?page=newsstory&category=newsstory&StoryId=h0318869.7ap

Disabled-Access Lawsuits Plague Businesses

Rep. Mark Foley, R-Fla., is pressing for a law that would give businesses notified of ADA violations 90 days to comply before they could be sued.

"Too many lawyers view ADA lawsuits as a quick way to become millionaires and too many small businesses have become their prey," the congressman said.

Someone in Florida needs to contact Rep Mark Foley since he seems to be involved in stopping ADA fraud. He might be able to use some of our information to help move his legislation along and to provide some help to us.

http://www.house.gov/foley/contacts/contact.htm

What is the risk of saying you disagree? What if you are willing to let them take you to court? How much more money can they take from us?

I owe only one year, 2001. I have two more days to make a decision. Please help.

this sucks! What is the risk in letting the IRS attempt to sue us for the money? This is not fraud on my part! I thought this was an honest business! It is an internet mall for crying out loud!

bfdiii,

Check your email if that is a valid email address. Also, visit my website (click on my username below) and then click on the "Are you a victim of NADN..." link.

We all disagree with the IRS, but the only way out of this mess is to file amended returns deleting any mention of the online malls and any business expenses associated with them. After the NADN bankruptcy and the lawsuit against Oryan Management are concluded, you can claim the losses as theft losses...this is the short version of answers to your concerns.

bfdiii, you don't have to agree with any audit. You have the legal right to file a tax court petition. The Notice of Deficiency states very clearly that you have 90 days to do just that. If you fail to do so, you lose your legal rights and the deficiency becomes final.

bfdiii,
You can ignore the IRS but eventually a judgement will be found against you then the IRS can begin proceedings to garnish your income or put a lien on your property that will prevent you from disposing of the property until you settle with them.

Taxlien Guy,

Is that what I've heard referred to as the "Ruby Ridge Protocal"? That is scary... are you sure that isn't just an Urban Legend? Can you elaborate?

Folks,
Regarding Steve Kassel. I faxed over my paperwork more at least 2 weeks ago, and have not had a response back. I, also, emailed him, letting him know the paperwork was sent, and asking him to contact me to discuss if he could work with my case. Have not heard a single thing from him to date. I am setting up a meeting with a local tax attorney to go over my situation, after speaking with him on the phone. At least I know I can get in contact with him.

I've just spoken to my Contact, listed on the "Examination" packet, at the IRS. At his prompting I am about to send a letter and some documentation showing that this mess was not entered into for "tax avoidance" reasons. From the conversation, I believe that the posture at the IRS is not what I feared. It looks like they know/accept that we were scammed and not willing/informed participants. Confirming that point looks like a formality to me. The information that I am about to supply them will be reviewed in consideration of reducing monies due over and above the tax liability amount. Cheifly the penalties. Accepting this as a scam, then the tax liability is what should have been paid in the year that it was due. I can't see it any other way. Thinking it was, and trying to run it like it was, a business did not make it a business. In hindsight I think we all know that. After talking to my contact,I'm sort of wondering why most people would even need Tax Pro's on this, but I am not as "in deep" as some of you. I'll let y'all know what happens.

Joker,
We are learning that each situation is different. I am glad to hear that some of us have encounted sensible IRS agents. I can only speak to my experience. I did owe the IRS money from a situation other than our NADN/Oryan problem. When I tried to sell my home I was surprised when my attorney told me that the title search on my house found a lien by the IRS. I had to settle with them before I could sell my house. I needed the IRS agent to issue a letter for me stating that the lien was satisfied because the lien was not removed from my record in time for my closing. My advice to everyone is not to let it get this far. If you are going to fight the IRS then do it according to their appeals process. Good luck!

Well that's very interesting Todd.

Steve must be out on vacation if he isn’t returning any of your phone calls or emails. Oh wait, that can’t be. I received an email on March 18th from him saying I should call him in person if I’m going to post negative comments. Then 3 more emails were exchanged on March 21st about how much of a “wimp” I was for not calling him directly. It sounds like he needs to spend a little more time working on these new cases instead of trying to defend himself as such a GREAT individual.

Good luck!

Well, my IRS agent has been surprisingly understanding and flexible thus far, but I'm in the middle of dealing with them right now. I spoke to him yesterday, and informed him that the main item I had issue with was the penalties assessed. I also told him that other victims of NADN have been able to get the penalties waived after pleading their case. He stated that he was not aware of any penalties being dropped at his office in Hawaii, but he had a questionaire that he would send me so I could fill it out and plead my case. The questionaire and any other items I choose to submit to defend myself will be reviewed and a decision will be made as to whether the penalties will be waived. He stated that the interest could not be waived since the IRS feels that any loan you might have taken out for this same amount would have been subject to interest from a financial institution.

My suggestion to any that have yet to settle their audit, is to try and save your money and work directly with the IRS agent assigned to your audit. If that fails then work contact a tax attorney to fight for you or just pay up.

Has anyone on this posting been able to get the interest amount charges dropped or has it pretty much just been the penalties being dropped?

I settled with the IRS recently (but as my final check has not yet cleared the bank, I'm still a bit nervous to say it is over). No interest was dropped on back taxes we owed. I was also told that the penalties were not being dropped for anyone involved with NADN, but we know from others that it HAS happened for some. (However, because I owed under $5,000, the percentage amount was dropped--I guess the penalty percentage raises with higher amounts owed, sort of double-edged sword in the back--those who owe the most, must pay the biggest percentages in penalties).

My back tax liability ended up being so low after I amended my return, I just decided to swallow it, pay up (regardless of my motives in this "business") and move on. I can say I didn't fight the penalties at all, though. It wasn't worth it in my case. I only owed a few hundred dollars after all NADN's errors were corrected, so the penalties/interest portion ended up being under $200. I agree that working DIRECTLY with my agent was not all that unpleasant--not even a little scary. She was congenial and highly professional, and she sure didn't call me a nincompoop as some other professionals have.

My plan was what snookered had suggested...to try to work through it alone first, and if I got no satisfaction, to seek professional help. I am satisfied with what I accomplished on my own.

Jeanne, How was it that the amount you owed was less than $5,000? Wasn't the ADA credit $5,000 by it self? The IRS is saying I owe $10,000 for just one year of involvement. If I manage to get them to drop the penalties it will bring it down to around $7,600.

Boy does this whole thing stink! I have but a day or two to decide... should I use a local tax attorney or use Steve H? Any advice?

Snookered,

NADN made numerous mistakes on my forms for 2002 (including not claiming over $3,000 in income taxes paid and reported to me on W-2 forms, not claiming any of my home mortgage interest, my husband's business expenses, rental expenses (they only claimed income for these items), and several other things that allowed me to make up for some of the lost ADA and Mall credits. Once those credits were eliminated, I still had enough in the error column to offset most what was claimed by NADN and disallowed by the IRS (as I said, most people won't benefit this way, but luckily, I had a very inept NADN preparer. In my case, their poor work made a very happy outcome on this audit. My daughter was ill, so I never even checked their math. Glad now that I didn't. It helped eliminate most of my IRS debt.

Seinfeld,

Why not let the golden hit generator (of Oz)decide for you. Just set up a little web page with individual links to your choices for tax pro's. Then just sit back and relax while the hit generator does the work for you. At a guarenteed rate of 40,000 hits per year. That would be over 100 hits per day. Barring a random 50/50 tie, you should have your choice handed to you within your 1-2 day window.

But wait, there's more. Act now and receive the entire zipcoded collection of mallforall and shopn'2000. Still not ready? Act quickly and get the limited "spin-off" edition of 24shopper. More... The first 100 callers get the "I knew Opaobie Before I knew S#!t" tee shirt and a complimentary Steve Kassel coffee mug with the inscription (either)"You can't spell Tea without "EA"" or "Call me Wimp!" printed in the bottom of the cup.

Good luck!

I am not a spam-bot, but I bet you wished to hell I was.

Sorry, Todd. I was certain I had batched your case with several others. I will check on it first thing Thursday morning.

By the way, I am still waiting to hear back from IRS with written information on how penalties have been applied. One thing we have not been able to resolve is that some individuals have been hit with 20% penalties while others have been hit with 40% penalties. A senior level IRS Technical Advisor in Oakland, CA told me a month or so ago that he believed it was based on the amount of tax due. We have proven that is not correct. Since then I have spoken with an IRS attorney in Washington who has not gotten back with me yet. Until we know exactly how the penalties have been applied, it's rather difficult to how precisely how to fight them. We have several ideas on what we may do to get the information, but for various reasons will not be posting that information publicly.

I think he must be bi-polar. Helps one minute, jerk the next. Crazy world.

Since this seems to be a period of silly posts, I remember going out to the garage with my father when I was about 7. We saw the cat sitting on top of the car "licking himself" to put it politely. Without missing a beat my dad said, "I don't know what he ate, but it must have been pretty bad if he has to do that to get the taste out of his mouth".

Maybe we can get this taste out of our mouths, too, but I hope we find a more meaningful way.

Speaking of having some fun,....

Dr. Hill,

My solicitor, Mr. Evan J. Davis, is anxious to hear from you, but he tells me he has not received a call from you. He handles all my financial dealings, so you must work through him.

Best Regards,

Bruce O.

==========================================

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:19:51 +0000, Joseph Hill wrote:

>
>ATTENTION: BRUCE,
>
>I NEED TO HEAR FROM YOU CONCERNING OUR PROPOSAL TO YOU BEING OUR
>REPRESENTATIVE(PAYMENT AGENT),PLEASE RESPOND TOMY LAST EMAIL.
>
>I WAIT FOR YOUR RESPONSE.
>
>REGARDS
>
>DR.JOSEPH HILL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: ""
>>To: ""
>>Subject: Fwd: Re: BE OUR REPRESENTATIVE
>>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:00:18 -0300
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Forwarded message from Bruce Obermeyer -----
>> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:25:33 -0600
>> From:Obermeyer <>
>> Subject: Re: BE OUR REPRESENTATIVE
>> To: Joseph Hill ,
>>"joseph_hill500@web-mail.com.ar"
>>
>>
>>(1)Your full names, -- Evan J. Davis
>>(2)Contact address -- P.O. Box 7238, Washington, D.C. 20044
>>and,
>>(3)Phone/fax numbers -- Tel: (202) 514-0079 (if busy, try Tel: (202)
>>514-6539)
>>
>>
>>=============================================
>>On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:58:58 +0000, Joseph Hill wrote:
>>
>> >Dear Sir/Madam,
>> >
>> >
>> >I represent ALPHA Import and Export Company based in the UK. My company
>> >exports cocoa and other goods/services for world trade. We are searching
>>or
>> >representatives who can help us establish a medium of getting to our
>> >customers in Europe and America as well as making payments through you as
>> >our
>> >payment officer.
>> >
>> >Most of our customer pay out in cheques and we do not have an account in
>> >your country that will clear this money. It is upon this note that we
>>seek
>> >your assistance to stand as our representative in your country.
>> >
>> >Note that, as our representative, you will receive 10% of whatever amount
>> >you clear for the company and the balance will be paid into an account we
>> >will avail to you.
>> >
>> >Please, to facilitate the conclusion of this transaction if accepted, do
>> >send me promptly by email the following:
>> >
>> >(1)Your full names,
>> >(2)Contact address and,
>> >(3)Phone/fax numbers.
>> >
>> >Thank you for your time.
>> >
>> >
>> >Very Respectfully,
>> >
>> >Dr.Joseph Hill,
>> >President,
>> >ALPHA Import/Export co.
>> >Goods for Import/Export
>> >Freight Fwdg. Svcs.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>----- End forwarded message -----

...for those of you who are new to the "I was a victim of NADN and Oryan Management" soap opera, Evan J. Davis is the Department of Justice attorney who filed the injunction against them.

...I hope "Dr. Joseph Hill" has a nice conversation with Mr. Davis....

Here's another one of those loopholes that are out of reach for most folks:

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=050325&cat=frontpage&st=frontpagetax_loophole_050324&src=abc

Look how may taxes were avoided there. And people say, "what do you mean" when we say we thought we were directed to legal tax credits like those we see being enjoyed by the big boys.

There was a very sad story in our local paper this morning. A city employee, one who had worked with the agency for 32 years, was caught embezzeling funds from the city travel fund she managed. She had won several humanitarian and service awards over the years and no one can figure out why she did such a thing after 32 years...until you read further down on the page. It seems she got into trouble with the IRS and they garnished her wages. She was desperate and felt she had no other way to live and pay her bills. While I certainly do not condone the theft, after our experiences (I wonder if she, too, was an NADN victim?) I definintely have sympathy for her plight--a single woman with no other means of support.

Of course I don't know the whole story and how she got to the point of garnishment, but it is yet another example of the desperation people can feel in these frightening situations. The IRS will not go away. The amount they say you owe will not disappear, so maybe the lesson is to work with them. Do not ignore them and let a situation get to the point of no return.

At the same time, don't lose your sense of humor and love of life as you make your way through the maze. Those are things no one or no situation should take from you. Thanks to the humorists on the site who keep us smiling inspite of it all.

....hmmm. This gives me an idea.

Dear Dr. Joseph Hill,

Perhaps your company would be interested in establishing a "supporting organization" for a most noble charitable cause with which I am intimately familiar. There are currently great tax benefits as well, but you must ACT NOW! Changes in the law are being proposed for the near future. You could name it "Supporting Utopia Compassionately Keeping Eternal Residuals 4 NADN victims" -- "SUCKER 4 NADN victims" for short -- and transfer your entire fourtune into it. Our "experts" will be happy to manage the fund for you -- many of us are becoming tax experts overnight. There are great benefits to you and your company which I will explain in my next correspondence, now what was your bank account number again?...."

...why didn't I think of this sooner....

Some of you may have seen that the Son of Boss audit cases were settled with the IRS collecting $3.2 Billion including penalties of TEN percent. Well, guess what folks. In all of the NADN cases, you are being hit with penalties of 20 or 40 per cent. Seems to me we have a story here. You are not sophisticated wealthy investors and yet you are getting hit with penalties 2-4 times what these people are hit with. Absolutely unfair. I'm hoping we are going to get some major news play here folks and be able to use it to get your penalties lowered. I'll keep you posted.

There are 3 cached documents that are still at Google that we may want to keep "alive", for documentation, by visiting them frequently. Otherwise, if the caches go unused, google will purge them as they have with other cached Oryan/NADN pages. Please add them to your favorites and visit frequently untill this mess is cleared up.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:_3fUtLteNcwJ:www.oryan-biz.com/FAQs.cfm%3Ffile%3DFAQs%26p%3DNSCN+Oryan+Management&hl=en

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:fuDjBg87_r4J:www.oryan-biz.com/SignUp.cfm%3Ffile%3DSign%26p%3DNSCN+oryan-biz&hl=en

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:FdOY0JuhNhoJ:www.oryan-biz.com/Ashcroft.cfm%3Fp%3DDMI+Oryan-Biz&hl=en

Wow, when I re-read these links, I see all over again why I got scammed. I've marked them to help keep them alive until this is all over for EVERYONE. Thanks, Gary.

I found this article to be of interest.
Worth a read.

IS THE DOMESTIC INCOME TAX A "SURVEILLANCE" TAX?

By Kevin Abrams

March 8, 2005
NewsWithViews.com

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild

"We will not be able to hold our politicians accountable until we get rid of the Fed." -- Howard Phillips Chairman, Conservative Caucus

"We do not enjoy liberty by grace of government, but by limitations upon its powers." -- Francis Lieber

Preface: What the Rothschild reference implies, is how through a control of money absolute control of the nation and its people are achieved - That those who control and oversee your pocket, actually control most, if not all, of your life. "None shall be able to buy or sell without a tax, or revenue number." It's a Corporate State cartel poker game wherein every trade, "deal" or business transaction is submitted to a "house" cut.

The present tax on domestic incomes, enacted in both Canada and the United States as an emergency war time measure, must today be investigated for its overall impact upon the freedom and productivity of the people who find themselves under said tax regimes. The income tax, has in fact, become a pretext for an increasing violation of the private domain and surveillance of all Americans and Canadians.

Captured in a prison of double jeopardy, the individual "taxpayer" is both, required to incriminate him/her self through the provision, to the income tax collection regime of a "confession," or so-called "tax return." So, the "taxpayer" finances his/her own prosecution, while simultaneously giving evidence against his/her "taxpayer." The so-called "Social Insurance" number, originally given as a number which identified one's financial "entitlements" in later years, has now morphed into a number which tracks one's tax "liabilities" and financial life (evidence), increasingly both in sales AND purchases.

The technocratic utilitarian utopia is not the world of freedom spoken of by America's founding fathers, but a world of surreptitious control and economic servitude. As President Thomas Jefferson observed, "the income tax is a slavery tax." And just how is this slavery enacted? Let us study the issue and how Government has increasingly become less accountable as its capacity to spend has correspondingly become largely unlimited. In fact, the modern Government cartel or Corporate entity, almost has no need of the people whatever to finance or approve of their operations. The Government simply has the Fed write a check which is then officially monatized by the US Treasury. New money or paper currency is essentially created from nothing. In effect, the domestic income tax is imposed to pay the interest levied on fiat currency issued by the Fed. In fact, the so-called "Federal Reserve" has absolutely nothing to do with the Federal Government other than serving as the originator of what is American fiat currency, paper money or legal tender.

With an ability to create an unlimited supply of fiat currency, the Government functions more like an autonomous Corporation then a representative body. The funding of multi-billion dollar black-op budgets without proper oversight and accountability has become common. The Government no longer serves the people, rather the people are designated as servants of the Government. The social "security" or "insurance" number has become a social "surveillance" number, the history of which is best described as a long term bait and switch scheme. The people vote in elections, but are forced into selecting their present "representatives" from an exclusive and narrowly defined "family" of candidates, who all belong to the same extra-governmental bodies like the CFR and Yale based Skull & Bones, of which both Bush and Kerry are members.

So, even under cursory examination, fiat money and a tax on domestic incomes undermine the democratic process, which is the heart beat of the American Constitutional Republic and the freedom and liberation for which it originally stood. Today's domestic income tax serves to pay interest derived from real wealth, on the fiat currency created by the Fed for Government expenditures. And if there is nothing intrinsically valuable about Federal Reserve notes (which are not even "notes" in the conventional legal sense) then let the printing presses rip and accountability be damned.

It's not simply, or only the banks who are responsible for this situation. Consider also those who spend the freshly created dollar bills. And dollar "bills" would be correct in the sense of, one must pay a "bill," because each American "dollar" in circulation today represents a share in debt rather than a claim on wealth. In case you haven't noticed, the, "will pay to the bearer on demand," a holdover relating to receipts issued by Gold Smiths for gold deposited in their vaults, has been eliminated from all US & Canadian Currency. Essentially, the fiat or Corporate Governments of both the United States and Canada are obligated to pay bearers of Federal Reserve "Notes" NOTHING.

Government has become an entity unto itself feeding upon the trough of paper money it compels the servants of the Corporation to accept under "legal" sanction. The system works only as long as natural persons consent to "voluntarily" remain servants of the fiat system. Ironically the Corporate form of Government which claims the status of a natural person, as do Canadian banks, today relegates the true natural person or citizen, by legalese or slight of hand, to the status of an inferior entity, legal fiction or strawman devoid of all human and citizenship rights except those "benevolently" granted by the Corporate Government cartels.

Largely unnoticed by the average natural person or citizen of the Constitutional States of America, and the natural country and government of Canada, is how Americans AND Canadians have been made slaves in their own homes through their respective Federal Reserves and the taxes on domestic incomes which accompany them. And, just as the tendency for Government to spend credit capital has come unhinged, so too has this propensity emerged amoung the average "consumer" with electronic, credit card capital expenditures - defaults breaking all previous records.

But don't worry, credit card capital is just as fictitious as the monatized check issued by the Federal Reserve. In essence, no "lender" is "loaning" anyone anything of intrinsic value, which in and of itself would or could represent a legal claim on real wealth. Could one then not postulate, if banks really lend nothing, and have nothing other than a license to fabricate fiat, electronic or paper money, then does a so-called "borrower" really owe them anything of real wealth in return?

One may conclude, which would be true of both Canada and the United States, that natural citizens certainly do not owe real wealth created by the productive and creative energy of the natural citizen. Banks today essentially lend credit and not money, which many stipulate is not commensurate with the Bank Act's regulating what and how a bank may loan. To be sure, fractionalized banking permits banks who have suffered large defaults, through reckless or inflationary lending practices to stay solvent, being that if nothing was loaned in the first place then nothing was really lost.

Today's banks, like the Fed, have a lot of "nothing" to loan, so this kind of "deficit capital," - an oxymoron, theoretically, is as endless as the paper upon which it is written. What has truly corrupted and undermined our true economies, is the capacity of unearned or deficit credit capital to out bid earned capital and real wealth in the market place. A person who hasn't worked a day in his life or created anything, but with a hundred thousand "dollar" line of credit or electronic capital, is always in a better market position than one who has worked and saved $15,000 of earned capital. The first represents a deficit or fiat debt based energy, while the other represents a true repository of real labor or earned capital. The corruption is essentially the perception that earned capital is somehow equal to fabricated or credit capital, when they couldn't be further apart.

What the Fed and its companion the IRS permit, is an all powerful Government unaccountable to the people. The Corporate Government cartels are essentially fiat Governments just as the currency they issue is also a fiat or intrinsically worthless currency. And worse, a fiat Government's currency is not only worthless, it is also a deficit currency. Picture a light bulb which EXTRACTS light from your home rather than providing lumination. The basis of a deficit currency is that it also represents a deficit in light AND life.

The right to one's personal capital is usurped by the State cartel which through their surveillance (income) tax, comes to regard so-called "taxpayers" as servants and liabilities, rather than independent and free agents entitled to ownership of the capital or wealth they create or earn through their own productive labor and endeavors. In any free society, labor produces and has first claim upon any capital or wealth it creates. Only the soveriegn citizen can build and sustain a truly free and just society.

A Disturbing Expose' of The American "Domestic" Income Tax System

© 2005 - Kevin Abrams - All Rights Reserved

Hey Gary,
By clicking these links, do I reduce my promissory note like PHgel and Nomore Odor clicks did?

You bet, "linkguy", the 1099 is in the mail!!!!

Marv,

Thanx for that post. I must admit that I'm struggling with some of the concepts put forth there but, hell, I've been scammed and have vowed to understand things in depth before I draw conclusions. By-the-way I think I actually bought some of those "light sucking" light bulbs "back in the day".

Don't forget to click on the NCH link, that's another dollar-a-click you know.... oh and remember OpaObie, "your Mall purchase won't cost you a dime, just put it on your credit card (it's not like that's real money anyway) and jack up your W4 dependents up to like 75 and use that to pay off the $300,000 purchase price of the Mall."

Thanks for the humor guys and the cached links Gary!

Recently I heard on the news about people selling advertising space on their bodies. I thought that was called a tatoo but apparently people are being paid to advertise a company's logo on their body. It's too bad NADN went bankrupt before this idea, I could hear Mark Bausch telling me how I could deduct all of my personal expenses by tatooing my mall address on my forehead.

I'm not sure if anyone needs copies of NADN's offerings, but while I'm slinging URL's, here's a trip down memory lane:

http://www.et-dialhome.net/kels/NADN/home.html

It looks like an duplication of the NADN website. I'm not sure why that is active, perhaps it has something to do with the lost episodes of the "Twilight Zone". Anyhow a lot of the links to other pages are still active. If you need documentation, then copy away.

I thought I read somewhere that Mark Bausch graduated from "Dumas" college and was so proud of that fact that he had it tatooed on his forehead.

...too bad they misspelled "Dumas" :)

Opaobie,

Mark? Tatoo? ...another case where "it" ain't worth the Ink that was written on "it". I don't think he "misspelled" "Dumas", he probably had to steal the missing letters to "print" his "BS" degree.

I spoke with my examiner today after sending in my amended returns. She told me that they were REQUIRED to impose the penalties and interest and that there was no wiggle room. She told me just to sign the forms and send them in and be done with it. She then said that while I could appeal the penalties, the appeals board would reject it. Has anyone had penalties reduced? It sure would be nice if I could show her that there IS wiggle room. Also, my total bi including penalties and interest is about $8000. I know that is alot less than some of you, but still alot. Should I just pay them?

Jay, I was told the same thing by my examiner--no wiggle room at all. Mine were small, but I paid them.

Ask your auditor who "REQUIRED" them -- the law doesn't.

Discretion is available even at the auditor level unless some supervisors are imposing rules on them that are not based on law, in which case, I would ask the auditor to send you a copy of the directive, memo, tax code, or whatever source says they are "REQUIRED". The penalties, as we have seen in our own cases, vary from 20% to 40% even from case to case, so exactly what is "REQUIRED", penalties in general or the amounts they are charging?

Frankly, I am getting a bit tired of IRS auditors and "tax experts" lying to us...or maybe they are just incompetent.

...oh, and if penalties and interest are "REQUIRED", why do they have a form requesting abatement...for example for these causes?

http://www.irs.gov/instructions/i843/ch02.html

..80% of the answers provided via the IRS 800 number helpline are wrong, so anyone who ever called and asked for advice and then got penalized could use this form.

...try these and see if you find one that you can use to request abatement:

http://search.irs.gov/web/query.html?col=irsweb&col=0&col=0&charset=utf-8&ht=0&qp=collection%3Airsweb%2C+-Wct%3A%22Internal+Revenue+Manual%22&qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&ws=0&la=en&qm=0&st=1&nh=10&lk=1&rf=0&oq=&rq=0&si=0&qt=Requesting+Abatement+or+Refund+of+a+Penalty&criterias=1a&Go.x=0&Go.y=0

...maybe they use "abate and switch" on their victims.

The March 12th posting by "Ron in Alaska" mentions that his penalty was removed.

The question would be "what is the penalty for?" Was it for intentional "tax avoidance"? You did not dream this thing up yourself, it was presented to you by top "tax professionals" as legal. You paid to "not" be ignorant of the law. Hence you did not enter this with the idea that you were circumventing taxation, but merely paying that which was due after following the ascribed strategies. I do not see how any system can allow a penalty, of this nature, against an action that was so obviously unintentional.

Just a thought... If you are successful at this, do you may become a "master abater"?

Gary, Gary, Gary (can you see me shaking my head here?)....NADN caused me to seek this sight, but your wit (along with the latest information on this mess, of course) keeps your audience coming back for more. I am constantly amazed at your keen ability to turn a phrase and make us laugh at our plight. (Opa, you too!) You are both amazing! I think if your IRS auditors had a sense of humor, you'd be home free! Someone should pay YOU for the entertainment value.

Just for the record, although some folks appear to be getting different stories, what my auditor told me is that the penalties were imposed from a "higher level" and she was not given any latitude to dismiss any of them at her level, despite my sound reasons for getting involved with NADN/Mall For All. (Although she did not say so, I got the feeling that she wished she could dismiss them, and maybe that is one reason she accepted my amendment changes without further question. I can only speculate here.) I wrote a letter of explanation along with my amended forms, but maybe dismissing or lowering penalties is part of the appeals process, which I did not pursue (Although Ron in Alaska did have a panel review his letter without a formal appeal). The only change to penalties I received, she said, was that the percentage was lowered because my liability was lower than $5,000. She informed me that if a person owed over $5,000 in taxes, the penalties were imposed at a higher percentage (I believe she even mentioned 80% for some!) than if you owed a lesser amount. Mine were imposed at 20%. I agree, the penalties are high, but more than that, they are bogus, as no intent to fraud was apparent for any of us. It would be great if someone got an explanation IN WRITING for why they are being imposed at all. Personally, I find it reprehensible that honest people are being penalized for taking expert advice when the criminals and fraud perpetrators get off relatively scott free. As Steve Kassel told us, CRIMINALS who intended to defraud have been charged 10% penalties! Why is our "crime" so much more heinous?

I have not been able to get the written directive coming out of IRS National Office on the application of penalties thus far so I am going to have to go the route of a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request. I hate going that route because it's painfully slow, but IRS isn't cooperating. I'm going to use my contacts in the press to try to get this quicker and I'll post my success or failure in that regard here. In addition right now it appears we are going to have to go the full appeals route on each and every case. That means filing the tax court petition after the Notice of Deficiency is received. That will send the case through appeals and does not necessarily mean it will actually end up in tax court.

Am I the only one who had no penalties imposed? I did not file an amended form or anything, I waited until they contacted me. I wonder why they are imposing penalties on some people and none on others?

Can't tell you, other than are you absolutely certain there were no penalties assessed?

If you happen to be in the Harrisburg, PA, area on April the 13th, have some fun with a local radio personality and enjoy the festivities.

Read the details here:

http://www.whp580.com/Rally.html

It's been a while that I checked this because I have moved on to other challenges in my life. Just want to report to you that I VOLUNTARILY amended my 2002 & 2003 returns (only returns that had the malls on them) and removed the credits and mall write off. I did the returns best I could myself then had Julia at GT Consultants (702) 638-0552 finish. I checked all math before I sent in. I did this in December and owed a total of over $8000. It was a relief to send in. Then came the waiting from the IRS.
The IRS finally sent me a notice in Mid-March, assessing interest only (between 4% and 6%, depending on the quarter) and NO penalty.
I promptly paid it and it was a great relief.
Julia is familiar with our situation and only charged a few hundred dollars.
Keep in mind any tax professional is going to be hard to reach between now and April 15.
Part of me wonders if I never amended my returns I would have never had to pay out all that money again but at least now I have the peace of mind. I told myself I was paying back credits I should have never received in the first place and the interest rate was reasonable.
However, I am still out the out of pocket expenses I paid to NADN.
I just want to share my experience. Best wishes to you -- I know the stress of this.

I understand that this is a comment section, now my parents got hit with the same scam. I am furious! They already lost their home to the IRS 7 years ago, finally back on their feet...now this. How convenient for the IRS to hit them exactly 14 days before TAX DAY, APRIL 15TH. They were cold hearted 7 years ago, and they are cold hearted today. Something has got to be done about this. By the way, where does all this money go that they collect? To pay the salaries of those who have no problem taking peoples homes and invading peoples bank accounts. OH YEAH, IF YOU HAVE MONEY IN THE BANK, YOU BETTER GET IT OUT SOON OR THEY WILL TAKE IT THEMSELVES I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN MORE THAN ONCE, THESE PEOPLE AREN'T REAL, THEY ARE ROBOTS...SAVE YOURSELF. I NEED ANSWERS TO WHAT CAN BE DONE!

RMarie, I think you were smart to do your amendment BEFORE the IRS got to you. I'm sure it would only have been a matter of time, and at that point the interest would have been more and the penalties levied as well. I had planned to do the same thing, but they got to me the week I was planning to send in my amendments. I just wasn't fast enough.

Alison, I feel deeply for your anger about your parents' situation. We have all felt the same anger and indignation for not only being conned, but then having to pay double what we have already lost. When we invested, we did what we thought was correct to get some of the benefits usually afforded only to large corporations who pay tax attorney to find every possible deduction and loophole LEGALLY available. None of us knew this scheme was fraudulent, and none of us wanted to be in this mess. Most of us (me included) invested with the ADA credit as a secondary reward. We wanted a way to make a little extra money on the internet, and that net caught us big time! So far (as far as I know) none of us have been "forgiven" our deductions for taking the ARA credits, but a few have had penalties reduced or not levied at all. I think, however, that is the exception. This site does give information and support, but unfortunately, the IRS will probably not go away from your parents' lives until this, too, is settled. You might get some good information reading through this, however, so it is probably worth your time (and you parents' time) to do so. Good luck! We've all been in the same sinking boat.

After reading so many of the recent postings, I am really wondering how many NADN customers there are left out there who are still not aware of what the IRS has been doing. Interestingly enough, one of our local channels here in Minnesota had a man on who conducts tax seminars. He mentioned that the IRS is conducting more audits than ever this year. All of this under the new commissioner who was apparently hired by Congress to go after people more aggressivley to collect taxes. He apparently really likes his hob. Of course, this is the same Congress who cannot seem to get control of their spending. The same Congress that we would like to make aware of our situation and the affect it has had on us. We still don't know what, if anything will be done to those who made it their job to sucker so many of us in. We can only hope that they get theirs, too. In the meantime, all we can do is bite the bullet, pay for our mistakes, and move on until some kind of final rulings come down. It seems like everyone can take all the time they need but the victims of this scam.

Since we were truly one of the luckier ones in this scam, and only had to pay back the credits and interest for one year, I can only say that I wish all the rest of you the best of luck. This site has truly been a blessing and means of support for so many. THANK YOU.

NG

How many others are there?

1. Start with 640,000.
2. Subtract the total number who have been audited (perhaps 40,000 or less).

...that is how many are left, and the "meter is running" on their back taxes, interest, penalties, and interest on the penalties.

...by the way, assessing disproportionate and varying interest and penalties and applying differing remedies to different taxpayers for the same tax code violations violates the Constitutional right to "equal protection". Everyone is supposed to be treated equally under the law.

...still waiting to read the news reports of the criminal convictions of a single one of the NADN or Oryan et al perpetrators.

Have YOU written to YOUR member of Congress today?

Opaobie,

I've heard that it is hard for tax payers to bend a Congress "Person's" ear to get anything done. Do you think that "Interest Payers" and "Penalty Payers" might do better? Here's an idea let's call ourselves a "Special Interest" Group. They might mistake us for lobbyists and accidently get us off the hook!!!

Standard disclaimer applies!! (= I am joking)

The longest hole in one ever recorded was by Lee Bruce in 1962 at the 480-yard dogleg 5th hole at Hope Country Club in Arizona.

I made eagle on a 395 yard par 4 yesterday by driving to the front of the green and making a 15 foot putt...OK, so it was windy here in Kansas. Sometimes you get a break, but I still had to make the putt.

Bill Carey's haste to give up cost him dearly on a July evening in 1964, the year I graduated from High School. Carey hit his tee shot to the short 7th green at Roehampton, England, in the dying light, but he couldn't find his ball. After a short search, he conceded the hole to his opponent, whose ball was hanging on the lip. After the concession, his opponent found Carey's ball -- in the hole...if only he had just had a little more perseverance.

Anything is possible, but if you never try or if you give up too soon, well, as the saying goes, "If you snooze, you lose."

...Have YOU written to YOUR member of Congress today?

Gary,

Here are a couple of Special Interest group names to try. See if you can come up with the ACRONYM each one spells out...hint, just use the first leter of each word but leave the "AND" as a connective.

Surviviors Coalition Resolved Eternally Withstanding Excessive Denigration AND Trying Always To Trudge Onward Optimistically Expecting Deductions

Special Interest Coalition Keeping Offensive Front Nationally Advancing Despite Nonelected AND Imbecilic Regulatory Setbacks

Don't forget to amend a tax return to recover the amount of tax paid out for the bogus 1099 generated by the click down "income" of the illegitimate promissory note. We amended ours and recieved a check for almost $3000, which we applied to what was owed for this mess. For reason for the amendment I only said "1099 entered in error" and that sufficed. We received the check in about 4 weeks. There was about $300 in interest included in that $3000. The IRS will be expecting us to include the $300 interest in next years tax return.

Some of you may be interested in this tax tip from the IRS (These arrive in my email from the IRS during tax-prep time). I found especially the percentages interesting:

Tax Tip 2005-69, April 7, 2005

If this year’s tax filing deadline will be a “pay” day for you and you cannot pay the full amount you owe, you should still file your return by the due date and pay as much as you can.

You can charge your taxes on your American Express, MasterCard, Visa or Discover cards. To pay by credit card, contact one of the service providers at its telephone number or Web site listed below and follow the instructions. The service providers charge a convenience fee based on the amount you are paying. Do not add the convenience fee to your tax payment.

Official Payments Corporation
1-800-2PAY-TAX (1-800-272-9829)

www.officialpayments.com

Link2Gov Corporation
1-888-PAY-1040 (1-888-729-1040)

www.pay1040.com

If this option is not a good one, you may be able to pay any remaining balance over time in monthly installments through an installment agreement. If you can not fully pay your taxes, you can apply to pay less than the full amount owed through the Offer in Compromise program.

To apply for an installment payment plan, attach Form 9465, Installment Agreement Request, to the front of your tax return. The IRS has streamlined the approval process if your total taxes (not counting interest, penalties or other additions) do not exceed $25,000 and can be paid off in five years or less. Be sure to show the amount of your proposed monthly payment and the date you wish to make your payment each month.

The IRS charges a $43 fee for setting up an installment agreement. You will also be charged interest plus a late payment penalty on the unpaid taxes. The late payment penalty is usually one-half of one percent per month or part of a month of your unpaid tax. The penalty rate is reduced to one-quarter of one percent for any month an Installment Agreement is in effect if you filed your return by the due date (including extensions). The maximum failure to pay penalty is 25 percent of the tax paid late.

If you do not file your return by the due date (including extensions), you may have to pay a penalty for filing late. The penalty for failing to file and pay timely is usually five percent of the unpaid tax for each month or part of a month that your return is late. The maximum penalty for failure to file and pay on time is 25 percent of your unpaid tax.

Opaobie,

Those special interest groups sound interesting, but wordy, an acronym is a great way to shorten the names up!

Have you heard of that one group, D.A.M., Mothers Against Dyslexia?

Remember that the abrieviation for "at" is "@", but you still have to hit 2 keys to use it. No energy saved on that one.

Thanks, Gary,

In case anyone couldn't figure them out or haven't tried, just use the first letter (I spelled "letter" correctly this time) of each word but leave the "AND" as a connective. The acronyms pretty well describe most of us.

...did you know that ACRONYM is actually an acronym?

Abbreviated Coded Rendition of Name Yielding Meaning

...so why doesn't the IRS pay us interest every time they send us a refund check? They kept our money for a year interest free.

I had a storm (casualty) loss this year of $6,000. However, when I ran my $6,000 loss through turbo tax, it came up with only a few dollars as a "loss." I did some more checking and now realize that not only is your casualty (and probably theft) deduction reduced by $100, but it is further reduced by 10% of your AGI. In other words, if your adjusted income is $50,000 and you have a $5,000 loss, you can not claim any of it ($5,000 minus the $100 and minus $5,000, which is 10%of your income.) I'm not sure, but this is probably the same thing for theft (as in NADN's theft) losses that some of us were hoping to claim in the future to regain some of our losses in the Mall scam. Anyone know for sure if we must take the $100 AND the 10% of our income off the top?

The IRS probably wouldn't let you claim it any other way than as a "casualty loss" using the form designed for specifically for "casualty loss" the way you described above. But if you claim any business use of your home, you might be able to claim a portion of the loss against the business use of your home using the same formula you use to calculate the other business deductions (based on the number of square feet in your house used for business divided by the total square feet in your house). It might require filing a Schedule C (not sure). Of course the IRS would probably tell you that you could only claim it if THAT part of your house was the part damaged.

The only way to pay a true "fair share" of taxes is through one of the "fair tax" proposals being considered. Tax the expenditures, not the income. Repeal the 16th Amendment and abolish the IRS.

http://www.fairtax.org/

Simply put, the FairTax replaces the way we're currently taxed - based on our annual income - with a tax on goods and services. The FairTax is a voluntary "consumption" tax: the more you buy, the more you pay in taxes, the less you buy, the less you pay in taxes. It's simple.

Everyone pays their fair share of taxes, and with the FairTax rebate, spending up to the poverty level is tax free. The Federal government is fully funded, including Social Security and Medicare, and you don't need an expert to determine your Federal taxes. It's simple.

...by the way, does the US Postal Service really need a $3Billion "escrow" fund? That is the reason they are giving for wanting to increase postal rates another 2 cents. The government is NOT supposed to be in the business of building up surpluses and creating "escrow" accounts. They are supposed to operate a BALANCED budget.

Have YOU contacted YOUR member of Congress today?

Hello all, I just found this web site. Too bad I did not find it when I first got my IRS notice in Jan 10, 2005. My mother had suffered badly health wise (two major surgeries back to back and three hospitalizations lasting 8 weeks). Her medical condition required my full attention as well as home care. She has her own insurance and a small income, so I am not finacialy assisting her other than transporting her to doctor appointments, assisting with her wound care and running errands for her(she is not permitted to drive). I had zero time to focus on researching where I can get help with my IRS situation, so I turned my case over to a tax attorney in Georgia. Unfortunately after filling out all the required paperwork, I was told that I did not qualify for an Offer in Compromise (too much invested in my retirement which counted as an asset-- and I would have to have owed the IRS more than $200,000 to qualify for the OIC). This attorney does not work with disputing the claim but works with the client on repayment based on several options. Since I owe under $10,000 they recommended a payment plan to the IRS over a 5 year period or I could pay off the entire sum. Since I do not have that kind of cash around, and cannot borrow money (already max'd out), I am going to have to go with the payment plan. They anticipate around $200 a month. Unfortunately interest will keep accurring during the repayment plan. The attorney's office did not recommend that I pull money out of my retirement (couldn't anyway if I wanted to) nor going the route of bankrupcy,
they said the best route would be to pay the debt off as soon as possible.

The questions I like to post here for folks on this forum is this. How should I file my taxes and when? Should I send the returns via regular mail or should I even attempt e-file?

I used TurboTax software to do my own taxes this year. I am ready to file my federal and state tax returns for 2004. There were no web based business deductions, just the regular itemized deductions for home interest, etc. I owe no taxes for 2004, in fact I was expecting a small refund on both.

After shelling out big bucks for a tax attorney ($1700), I could not afford to go to H&R Block. The tax attorney did reviewed my 2004 returns for fed and state and told me to go ahead and file the returns. I was told I may or may not receive any refunds; it depends if the IRS had posted my debt in their system to all IRS sections/departments. I was also told not to expect any refunds for the next few years until the debt is paid in full.

Oh well, It doesn't matter anyway! :-(

Should I wait until April 15th to mail my returns? I just don't want to waste my time with an e-file and the money it cost to e-file if the return gets rejected or flagged.

Can anyone tell me what route I should go with?
SNAIL mail or e-file and whether I need to send my return before the deadline or wait until the last day to file?

Thanks for listening!

Thanks and best of luck to us all in this trying times!

Ladydi

As long as you file by April 15, it probably doesn't matter at this point in time which way you file now. You're only talking about a week difference. Efile will cost you a few dollars but doesn't require printing out and signing a paper return and paying the postage to mail it, and it is faster. The IRS seems to like efile returns. It would be a good idea to print a paper copy for your records regardless of which way you eventually file.

Thanks.

Ladydi

Here are some answers to the questions about Casualty and theft losses.

Casualty and theft losses (Schedule A, line 19) are limited by an $100 threshold per loss event and an overall threshold of 10% of your adjusted gross income. To phrase this another way, your casualty loss is deductible to the extent that it exceeds $100 per loss event, and to the extent that it exceeds 10% of your AGI. For example, John suffered two losses last year: his uninsured laptop computer was stolen, and later an earthquake caused damage to his home. Each event is subject to a separate $100 limitation. Let's say his stolen laptop was worth $1,500, then applying the $100 limitation, we have a loss of $1,400. Similarly for the damage to his home. Now, John's total casualty and theft losses, when added up, are reduced by 10% of his adjusted gross income. Let's say the damage to his home reduced his property value by $10,000, and John has an adjusted gross income of $30,000. The calculations would go like this:
Event 1 Stolen computer ($1,500 - $100) = $1,400
Event 2 Damaged house ($10,000 - $100) = $9,900
Total Losses ($1,400 + $9,900) = $11,300
10% Threshold ($30,000 AGI x 10%) = $3,000
Deductible Losses ($11,300 - $3,000) = $8,300
Casualty and theft losses are reported and calculated on Form 4684 (PDF) and using Instructions for Form 4684 (PDF).

http://taxes.about.com/od/preparingyourtaxes/a/1040step6_3.htm

I apologize for this off-topic post, but when your niece's husband has his photo taken with Charlie Daniels while stationed in Afghanistan, it just makes you proud.

http://www.opaobie.com/images/Trace-Charlie-Daniels.jpg

Of my $6,000 casualty loss in 2004, I ended up getting a $17 tax deduction. Didn't help much in the scheme of things, because I had to PAY the $6,000 to get the repairs done regardless. No flood insurance to cover my losses. I assume the NADN "losses" will be about the same if and when "theft" losses are allowed--not much for what you actually spent.

Something to read..
The 9 weirdest tax write-offs

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Taxes/P108364.asp?GT1=6362

I have been communicating with New York Times reporter and best selling author and Pulitzer Prize winner David Cay Johnston for some time concerning NADN victims. David has quoted me in the past and he mentioned NADN victims in an article in Sunday's San Francisco Chronicle.

He stated: "Last month, the IRS announced it expects to collect more than $3 billion from people who bought an abusive tax shelter called Son of Boss, a strategy for people with tons of stock options. The penalty for most of these cheats will be 20 percent or less. But penalties twice that size are being applied to the small-time chiselers who owe the government about $7,000 each in taxes because they got taken in a scam called the National Audit Defense Network."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/10/ING0UC4LLO1.DTL

Found this at

http://www.inbusinesslasvegas.com/2005/04/01/feature3.html
April 4, 2005

Trustee targets tax firm founder

By Kevin Rademacher / Staff Writer

The trustee in charge of liquidating the controversial Las Vegas-based tax service company National Audit Defense Network has filed a new round of complaints seeking to recover funds on behalf of the estate.

In the latest round of complaints, Trustee William Leonard is going after NADN founder Cort Christie for allegedly receiving millions of dollars in transfers from NADN as the company was in failing financial health.

Also named in the complaint were two other companies allegedly controlled by Christie -- Nevada Corporate Headquarters Inc. and American Binder Co.

"Millions of dollars in fee income passed through the NADN's coffers prior to and during its Chapter 11 case before the doors of the business were closed," the complaint said. "Much of the money collected by the debtor is no longer in its control because such funds were fraudulently transferred to third parties, including but not limited to Christie, NCH and Binder."

Leonard also alleges that "Christie committed two or more acts constituting a pattern of racketeering activity."

Christie could not be reached for comment.

In a separate complaint Leonard is seeking more than $1 million -- also for allegedly fraudulent transfers -- to Keyword Gold Inc. and its principals, Dorian Reed and Joseph Prokop.

The complaint also names Keyword Gold's alleged successor company, Pacifica Labs Inc., its parent company, American Management Group Inc., and Donald D. Merritt.

Leonard did not, however, allege racketeering in the Keyword Gold complaint.

The liquidation of National Audit Defense Network, which began in May 2004, followed a series of problems involving the company. In 2002 both the Federal Trade Commission and the Nevada attorney general's office sued NADN, alleging it failed to honor money-back guarantees.

In the summer of 2003, NADN's troubles mounted when it filed for bankruptcy protection. The largest creditor in the filing was the Internal Revenue Service, which had a $1.3 million claim against the company.

At that time, Weston Coolidge, the company's president and owner, blamed the bankruptcy filing not on the IRS claim but on a $1 million claim against the company by the Securities and Exchange Commission. He said the SEC's action was based on an investment NADN executives made in a company that later turned out to be running a Ponzi scheme.

The IRS took on the tax firm with an April 2004 court filing that sought a temporary restraining order against the company. Attorneys for the Department of Justice said NADN was engaged in running a tax scam and filing false federal income tax returns for customers, costing the government an estimated $324 million.

Since Leonard took over as trustee, he has claimed that NADN paid more than $12 million to companies controlled by top executives and managers in the months before it sought bankruptcy protection and, ultimately, liquidation.

Coolidge bought the company in 2002 from Christie and co-founder Robert Bennington, who committed suicide in June 2004.

In other recent legal filings in the case, Leonard charges that a series of banks have failed to turn over more than $1 million in reserve funds held for credit card processing services. Leonard alleges that HSBC Bank USA and North American Bancard Inc. are holding $212,382 belonging to NADN's estate.

Optimal Payments Ltd., Leonard also alleges, is holding $957,984 in a reserve account that belongs to the estate.

He also is taking exception to fines that Optimal has assessed against NADN that were not authorized by the original service agreement.

Kevin Rademacher covers utilities and finance for In Business Las Vegas and its sister publication, the Las Vegas Sun. He can be reached at (702) 259-4069 or by e-mail at kevinr@lasvegassun.com.

Mr. Leonard is doing some good work trying to locate the missing $Millions. Maybe some of the criminals will actually be prosecuted as well.

Referring to us as "small-time chiselers" will not help our image as victims of a scam or help us argue our cases before the IRS. I appreciate the national exposure in the news article, but we are NOT "chiselers" of any kind -- quite the contrary, we were misled to believe we were investing in a BUSINESS that offered a fair return on investment as well as tax incentives and provided a service to the disabled. We are honest people who trusted in the reputation offered by NADN as former credentialed and nationally recognized IRS experts, lawyers, auditors, CPAs, and advisors, and for that trust, we were defrauded. Even the implication that we were dishonest can hurt our cases, so I hope we are portrayed accurately in future news articles.

...one step forward and two steps back.

What? An endorsement from the IRS..and other prominent sources? How could that be since EVERYBODY should have known this was just a thinly veiled Tax Scam.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0071361227&itm=21

Barnes & Noble

How to Pay Zero Taxes: Your Guide to Every Tax Break the IRS Allows!
Jeff Schnepper

(More works by Mr. Schnepper)
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?userid=x73JuaHBOl&ath=Jeff+Schnepper

Product Details:
ISBN: 0071361227
Format: Paperback, 652pp
Pub. Date: January 2000
Publisher: McGraw-Hill Professional
Edition Description: 2 ED
Edition Number: 2
Format: Paperback - 2 ED
Pub. Date: January 2000
Used Copies Available
from our Authorized Sellers

How to Pay Zero Taxes: Your Guide to Every Tax Break the IRS Allows!
FROM THE PUBLISHER
Make 2000 the year your pay zero taxes!

'All taxpayers should make themselves aware of every deduction available under the law. This book can be a benefit to us all by explaining how to save thousands of dollars in tax. ' - JoDeane Dykman,Former IRS Chief, Taxpayer Service.

'Having known Robert Bennington,President of NADN,as a dynamic and knowledgeable person,this special edition book, How to Pay Zero Taxes by Jeff A. Schnepper, surely will create raised eyebrows as a blockbuster publication for the benefit of every American citizen. Best of luck NADN!' - Nathan Kline, C. E. O., Jalapa Gas and Chemical Corporation.

'How to Pay Zero Taxes tells the general taxpayer a great story about how to exercise our right to take all the deductions we have coming to us. Guaranteed to teach each and every person something they did not know before!' - Laura Ungaro, Es., Trust Specialist.

'I've spent countless hours searching for a book that esentially 'lays it all out' as far as providing clear-cut,no-nonsense tax assistance. Finally,Robert Bennington and the National Audit Defense Network have aseembled just such a book. Whatever you do,read this book; it could cost you thousands of dollars not to. ' - J. J. Childers,Attorney and Author of The Secret Millionaire series.

Fully updated to include all the latest tax law changes,How to Pay Zero Taxes outlines the easiest,most practical strategies you can use to lower your taxes this year - next year - and beyond. Hundreds of thousands of savvy taxpayers from all walks of life - business owners,professionals,retirees,homeowners,and parents - have relied on this trusted guide to find every legal tax break. Now you,too,cantakeadvantage of all the deductions and exemptions the IRS doesn't publicize - but allows! How to Pay Zero Taxes guides you through the ins and outs of every IRS-sanctioned tax-saving strategy available for preserving income. From converting personal expenses into business expenses to obtaining tax credits for dependent care to setting up tax-slashing trusts to avoiding or surviving an IRS audit,Jeff Schnepper's guide comprehensively covers more deductions than any other tax book,all conveniently organized in six fast-access categories: exclusions,credits,'above the line' deductions,'below the line' deductions,traditional,and supertax shelters.

...but hey, what do I know, I'm just one of the 640,000 former "small-time chiselers" who actually believed all these endorsements.

More interesting reading if you are still uncertain about how to proceed.

http://broileslaw.com/nadn.html

An interesting question:

As a matter of law, IRS is required to charge interest on taxes owed but unpaid. IRS is only allowed to "abate" or waive interest in limited circumstances - primarily, where IRS has waited 18 months past the due date of the return to assess additional tax, and where the taxpayer has relied upon erroneous "written" advice from the IRS.

Question: Does a refund check from the IRS based on a tax return that has been accepted by the IRS count as "written" advice that the credits and deductions accepted on that return are legitimate and acceptable to the IRS, thus "advising" the filer "in writing" that continuing to invest in that "investment or business" and claiming the credits and business expenses associated with that "business" are perfectly legal activities? What about if the return was accepted WITHOUT the credits and deductions and then amended to ADD them in and subsequently accepted by the IRS?

If returns were filed on time as described above, interest could legally be abated by the IRS. Penalties should be abated for the same reasons.

I paid just under $20,000. I put it all behind me and moved on. FYI... the IRS wants our money. If you take the words "THE" and "IRS".... and add them together...What do you get?

Theirs... which means our money wil eventually be "THEIRS".

Happy Tax Day!!

Some food for thought....(and maybe? a smile)

A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong, and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.

Everybody should pay his income tax with a smile. I tried it, but they wanted cash.

I went to Washington and visited the Tax Department. I just wanted to see the people I'm working for.

With my latest raise, I can now afford to pay last year's taxes.

I'm putting all my money in taxes--it is the only thing sure to go up.

Patrick Henry should come back to see what taxation with representation is like.

When a Congressman says he's for a tax cut--it simply means he wants his cut of your taxes.

There's only one thing to be said about the wages of sin. It's about the only wage the government doesn't tax--yet.

A taxpayer is a person who has the government on his payroll.

I hope this year is better for everyone out there!

http://www.fairtax.org/

...any questions?

We need some laughs.

The Sunday School teacher was asking the kids some questions.

"Chris, what was the name of Jesus' mother?"

Chris, "That's easy, her name was Mary".

"That's right! Now who can tell me the name of Jesus' father?"

Opaobie, "His name was Virge".

Puzzled, the Sunday School teacher asked, "and why do you think Jesus' father's name was Virge?"

Opaobie, "Well, everybody was always talking about Virge 'n Mary". :)

Just wanted to post how my office is handling ALL of our NADN audit cases. We will be filing a Tax Court petition (there is a $60 filing fee which is the responsibility of the petitioner) and we'll ask that the case be heard in San Francisco (the nearest court to eTaxes.com). We'll then ask that the case be transferred to IRS Appeals in San Francisco. Again, this will be for ALL of our cases. We spoke with Appeals in San Francisco today and confirmed that this is the proper method to handle them. We want the cases in the same venue for several reasons, consistency being primary among them.

We have 90 days from the date on the Notice of Deficiency to file the petition and none are coming up on the deadline anytime soon. Unfortunately, these are going to be far more time consuming than we hoped, but that's life. Financially, these cases are absolutely a big time loser for my office, but we will spend all the time needed to properly support the cases. Please note that eTaxes.com does not employ attorneys so our involvement must end before the case actually hits Tax Court. If it comes to that and the client wishes to pursue it that far (something we probably will not recommend), the client will have to handle it pro se or hire an attorney.

Unbelievable!!!!

I went ot school with Cort at Pepperdine, a university who's MBA program is renown for it's Ethics based curriculum. I never would have guessed that this was going on.

Rafael,

If you still correspond with Cort, ask him to contact me...I have a few questions for him. If you go into business with him, next time you may both have the opportunity to graduate from Fulsom...they also have an "ethics based curriculum".

Rafael,

We know that Cort had good credentials along with his cronies at NADN. The mess we are in would not have happened if those credentials were questionable. It looks like Cort has fallen to the lure of the "Dark Side". I'm sure that he was able to pay of his student loans to Pepperdine with the first customer he soaked at NADN.

Opaobie is sort of joking around with Cort's doings with us. I'm sure you are not in Cort's league and your ethics are intact. Check back with us every once and a while for stories to take to the next Pepperdine reunion.

Did someone say "Fulsom"?

I hear that train a comin',it's rollin' 'round the bend, I ain't seen that online mall since "I don't know when"... Well I'm dealin'with-the-IRS now, and time keeps draggin' on... When I see an ad 'bout Vegas, I hang my head and moan...

Everybody put your hands together... (it's called prayer).

disclaimer: Sorry Johnny, we ain't got no Cash!!!

Gary, that was funnier than lips on a rooster.

I saw Johnny Cash in concert once many years ago. At the end of the concert, a group of girls ran up to him giggling and said, "Oh, Mr. Cash, can we have your autograph?" He looked down at them from the stage and in his very deep voice said, "My name's Johnny, my dad's Mr. Cash, but you can have my autograph"...I'll bet that put a ring of fire around them, and I sure wasn't gonna call him Sue.

The latest from i-Newswire
http://i-newswire.com/pr16585.html

FEDERAL COURT PERMANENTLY ENJOINS DEFUNCT TELEMARKETING FIRM’S FORMER PRESIDENT AND GENERAL MANAGER

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The Justice Department announced today that a federal court in Las Vegas has barred five Nevada men linked to a defunct telemarketing firm-the Las Vegas-based National Audit Defense Network (NADN)-from selling tax fraud schemes and preparing income tax returns for others. The court barred NADN’s former president, Weston Coolidge, of Las Vegas; its former general manager, Alan Rodrigues of Henderson; and Lee Panelli, Jeff Klingenberg, and Ric Klingenberg, all Las Vegas residents. The court also enjoined a related company, ALR, Inc., doing business as Success Matrix Group, from committing the same conduct.

i-Newswire, 2005-04-23 - Under a previously-issued court order, the government obtained from NADN the names of tens of thousands of NADN customers, including their mailing and e-mail addresses, Social Security or employer identification numbers, and telephone numbers.

NADN allegedly marketed a tax-fraud scam in which victims falsely were told they could claim a tax credit under the Americans with Disabilities Act ( ADA ) by purchasing websites and then modifying them to comply with the ADA. The government’s court filings estimated that customers using NADN’s tax schemes, including the ADA-credit scheme, cost the federal treasury $324 million over a three-year period.

“The Justice Department and the Internal Revenue Service are committed to stopping tax fraud,” said Eileen J. O’Connor, Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department’s Tax Division. She thanked Tax Division trial attorneys Evan J. Davis, Phyllis Jo Gervasio, and Karen G. Gregory; Tax Division paralegal Marion Goyette; and IRS revenue agents Sue Cutler and David Gordon for their work on the case.

The only remaining defendant in the suit is former NADN manager Adam Mangabang, against whom a preliminary injunction remains in force.

This case is part of the Justice Department’s “Operation Roaming Charge,” which targets international and domestic telemarketing fraud. Information about Operation Roaming Charge is available at .

More information about this case, including prior injunction orders and a copy of the complaint and brief in support of motion for preliminary injunction, are available at http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv04233.htm ; http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv04309.htm , http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv04395.htm , and .

Information on NADN’s bankruptcy is available at . More information about the Justice Department’s Tax Division is available at http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/index.html .

###

05-199

If you have questions regarding information in these press release contact the company listed below. Please do not contact us as we are unable to assist you with your inquiry. We disclaim any content contained in this press release.

Press Release Date
2005-04-23

Information about Operation Roaming Charge is available at:

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2004/October/04_crm_680.htm

For some reason, this link did not appear on the previous post.

hmmm? So Cort Christie is still free to scam at will?

"The Justice Department and the Internal Revenue Service are committed to stopping tax fraud," said Eileen J. O?Connor, Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department?s Tax Division...maybe she ought to look in her own office...

"How to Pay Zero Taxes: Your Guide to Every Tax Break the IRS Allows! by Jeff Schnepper:

'All taxpayers should make themselves aware of every deduction available under the law. This book can be a benefit to us all by explaining how to save thousands of dollars in tax. ' - JoDeane Dykman, Former IRS Chief, Taxpayer Service.

'Having known Robert Bennington,President of NADN,as a dynamic and knowledgeable person,this special edition book, How to Pay Zero Taxes by Jeff A. Schnepper, surely will create raised eyebrows as a blockbuster publication for the benefit of every American citizen. Best of luck NADN!' - Nathan Kline, C. E. O., Jalapa Gas and Chemical Corporation.

'How to Pay Zero Taxes tells the general taxpayer a great story about how to exercise our right to take all the deductions we have coming to us. Guaranteed to teach each and every person something they did not know before!' - Laura Ungaro, Es., Trust Specialist.

'I've spent countless hours searching for a book that esentially 'lays it all out' as far as providing clear-cut,no-nonsense tax assistance. Finally,Robert Bennington and the National Audit Defense Network have aseembled just such a book. Whatever you do,read this book; it could cost you thousands of dollars not to. ' - J. J. Childers,Attorney and Author of The Secret Millionaire series.

...and from the publisher: 'Fully updated to include all the latest tax law changes, How to Pay Zero Taxes outlines the easiest, most practical strategies you can use to lower your taxes this year - next year - and beyond. Hundreds of thousands of savvy taxpayers from all walks of life - business owners, professionals, retirees, homeowners, and parents - have relied on this trusted guide to find every legal tax break. Now you, too, can take advantage of all the deductions and exemptions the IRS doesn't publicize - but allows!

How to Pay Zero Taxes guides you through the ins and outs of every IRS-sanctioned tax-saving strategy available for preserving income. From converting personal expenses into business expenses to obtaining tax credits for dependent care to setting up tax-slashing trusts to avoiding or surviving an IRS audit, Jeff Schnepper's guide comprehensively covers more deductions than any other tax book, all conveniently organized in six fast-access categories: exclusions, credits, 'above the line' deductions, 'below the line' deductions, traditional, and supertax shelters.

Opaobie,

It is quite the process going from "zero taxes" to thousands of dollars plus interest and penalties. The paying "zero" part is easy, anyone can do it (or not do it).

Dream sequence:

Dear IRS person, I paid zero taxes, and I'd be happy to pay interest and penalties on "zero" taxes... I think you are trying to take advantage of me with these figures you came up with... Everyone knows zero times anything is zero, unless it is negative zero! I think you are counting on that hand that the Wendy's chili comes from... ahhh!!!, finger food, not as good as those Horse d'oovers.

Back to reality (sort of):

Screw it, I'm going back to the old way of overpaying then getting something back. It is another "stupid" way of dealing with taxes however I seemed to feel better at the end of the day/year, every day/year. If I ever find the butterfly that "flapped it's wings" and started things going the day I contacted NADN, well lets just say it won't be pretty! I "will" use "the Force"!!!

Yeah, it's almost as unbelievable as someone NOT paying taxes and then getting a REFUND -- WAIT! That is called the "Earned Income Credit"!!

So if someone from the IRS tells you "If it sounds too good to be true, it has to be a scam" and then you get an Earned Income Credit "Refund", will you get an audit letter and owe thousands of dollars in penalties and interest someday in the future?

...Hello, DOJ? Yes, I would like to report some "abusive tax shelter" scammers. Just drive over to the IRS and pick them up.

I asked this before and did not get a whole lot of response...has anyone filed an "Offer in Compromise" for the back taxes owed? If so what was the outcome?

The IRS does not seem too eager to allow Offers in Compromise for the average person. You might want to check out what they say on their website...of course if you were a former CEO of a Fortune 500 company that had just looted the company, you might get away with it....

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0%2C%2Cid%3D104593%2C00.html

This information should help anyone thinking about an Offer in Compromise.

http://www.etaxes.com/offer_in_compromise.html

Over the past 18 months or so, Offers have gotten much more difficult. There is no doubt that the current IRS Commissioner is very anti-Offer. However, we regularly get many Offers accepted for our clients. We used to get many more accepted. Our acceptance rate was very, very high...close to 90% for a long time. It's way down from that. I have to update some more of the information on my site with respect to Offers.

The bottom line is that if you have no assets and no ability to make monthly payments, you may be a good Offer candidate. Remember, Offers are for people that CANNOT pay the total due. Given that the NADN audit cases are relatively small amounts owed, the vast majority of these cases are NOT good for Offers. That's because the IRS has ten years to collect the tax and you will almost certainly be able to pay it off over the ten-year term.

So… If NADN hadn’t met an “untimely demise” their “tax strategies” would have had everyone “so” indebted for taxes that they would have been excellent candidates for “Offer In Compromise”. Maybe we just didn’t see the “Big Picture”!

Year 2000 photo of our hero, Cort Christie. (one on the right)

http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/2000/Jun-01-Thu-2000/photos/darcy.jpg

His mug and bio are on this link as well.
http://www.yeolasvegas.com/member_listing.php

So Mr. Christie's forum in the above yeo Las Vegas group is listed as "Bloodsport". Makes one pause....

Has anyone heard anything regarding the Oryan bankruptcy? I want to make sure I put in a claim, but have not heard a single thing concerning it.

As we all know, NADN filed for bankruptcy, but as far as anyone knows, Oryan did not file for bankruptcy. They just closed doors. For details concerning joining the class action lawsuit against Oryan, follow the NADN link on my website (click on my username to reach my website).

Just a reminder that if you email me for info or to join in the class action lawsuit, use an email address that won't block my reply and that doesn't bounce.

Well, just "settled-up" for tax year 2002 with the IRS. My agent worked with me & crunched the numbers. Got the figure down to around $2,600. Fortunately our tax profile had other real credits and deductions not associated w/ the NADN/Oryan & alot of the Mall/ADA credits/deductions represented a "carried forward" balance that we did not apply to our 2003 taxes. We did however get assessed interest & penalty. For the record, the penalty is at 20%.

It is still not over for us, we have to ammend our 2003 taxes to take out the expenses & "money received" from the sponsor "revenue". We will also have to ammend our 2004 taxes to reflect the "thieft loss" when that is appropriate.

In retrospect, we were lucky in the refusal to sign up for additional modifications until Oryan corrected existing problems with the website. Since that never happened, our overall losses were small compared to those who "trusted" that those problems were going to be worked out and followed the advise of experts at NADN. Back then it was purely an up or down business decision.

Had Oryan corrected the problems, the energy applied to the ADA/tax problem would have been placed on promoting a viable website.

An interesting note: It was claimed that the website did not actually, or directly, sell anything and therefore was not a business. Well there was one thing for sale, you could buy a "mallforall/shop'n2000". What's the going rate today? Who's paid (will pay)the most?

I am looking forward to the Chris Tulino/NADN/Oryan Epilogue Page. Once again,Thanx Chris.

I'll be Bach... You be Beethoven... We'll dress up!!! I can't h-e-a-r you!!!

Congrats Gary. The audit could have been so much worse... and despite any injustice, it is always nice to have MOST of this in the past. Yes, the epilogue will be a welcomed sight.

As to the theft deduction, since it must be reduced by 10% of income plus $100, I probably will not even do that amendment. It will most likely not be worth much, but I everyone should figure it (if and when it ever becomes an option) just to be sure.

Check my math, but I don't think anyone will be happy trying to write off the "theft" loss.

Casualty and theft losses (Schedule A, line 19) are limited by a $100 threshold PER LOSS EVENT and an overall threshold of 10% of your adjusted gross income. To phrase this another way, your casualty loss is deductible to the extent that it exceeds $100 PER LOSS EVENT, and to the extent that it exceeds 10% of your AGI. Casualty and theft losses are reported and calculated on Form 4684 using Instructions for Form 4684. If you were defrauded of $2495 (the cost of the online mall) and your ajusted gross income is more than $23,950, you will not be able to deduct any of it. If you invested in more than one mall, just do the additional math and subtract $100 per event to see what your maximum AGI can be in order to claim anything...it's obvious why the IRS is refusing to allow any business deductions and insisting that the losses be shown as "theft" losses.

What happens if a future victim finds out he bought a mall through one of our websites? I participated in their "partner" program and advertised the sale of malls through my website. Is that a legitimate sale, or do we go to jail for fraud?

Have you contacted your members of Congress yet?

Regarding the "theft loss", it's my understanding that you can only declare it in the year of the loss. I beleive you will have to wait until the year the NADN backruptcy is discharged in order to claim the "theft loss". Another argument I have heard is since the Bankruptcy trustee stated publicly in 2004 that he beleives there will be no funds left for the creditors you may be able to take the position that based on his professional opinion as the trustee there is no way to get any kind of reimbursement so we should be able to declare the loss in 2004.

Read my post above. Based on that, if you make more than $23,950 AGI, does it really matter when you claim it? You won't get any deduction after you subtract $100 and then subtract 10% of your AGI.

10% of 23,950 = $2395
Loss = $2495
Minus $100
Amount of loss you can claim = $2395

$2395 minus $2395 = ZERO

...now you see why the IRS insists the loss MUST be claimed as Theft loss instead of as a business loss...but they get to write the rules.

Yesterday in the mail I got a check from the IRS for $10.21. It had no indication on it as to what it was for (I already got my 2004 tax refund check). I have no idea why I got it, but I'm assuming it is a "refund" on interest I may have overpaid on my 2002 taxes I recently settled from the NADN fiasco. ???? Anyone else get anything like this? It is hardly worth mentioning, except if I cash and use it, will I owe penalties and back taxes on it in a year or two when The IRS decides it was sent an error?

I received a refund of $221.27. The date on the check in a very small font and next to the amount was Dec 02. I am assuming that after payment of interest due from the amended amount there was an overpayment. Does this mean that 2002 is officially behind us?

Now is the IRS looking at our 2003 returns?

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mow/news2005/hicksd.ple.pdf

In my discussions with the IRS people that handled my amended returns for 2001, 2002 and 2003 I was told that the government's recent reduction of interest percentages on amended or "late" returns might result in refunds after the returns were completely through the system. I, too, have received checks for each of the years I filed, which, although their information didn't indicate such, was for a return of overpayment of interest.

Well, now I am broke and with no saving left after giving $11,000 back to Uncle Sam. I hate the way we got thrown under the bus here, because we got scammed. I'm fine with paying back the money that government legally says I should have claimed, but the 40% penelaties on something I figured was legit is unfair. And we all know there are tons of reasons that this seemed on the up and up.

I wish one of those government tax officials got walked through the logic/sales pitch that I got walked through and seen if he could see what holes he could have poked through it to make it seem bogus. I searched the internet to see if the IRS had anything bad about this back in 2000 when I did it and NOTHING. I was looking to start my own business as well. It all made sense and was legal.

How many returns got reviewed and they get to this 5 years later and penalize us! They might be surprised that we are not tax professionals and that we thought we were talking to tax professional that were advertised on the most popular radio station in Dallas 96.3 - Unbelievable. I don't see the typical scam of selling payphones on the radio. I was floored when I heard they were being investiaged and this all started. Granted they were pushy and doing the hard sell, but that doesn't make them criminals just annoying salesmen.

I talked with a new tax professional (cost = $400) and based on their new assessment there wasn't much else I could do with my returns. So I just bent over and let Uncle Sam ram his fist in my azz and pull out my entire savings account (thank God I had it). Well now its all over and not going to cry over spilled milk anymore as I am now stress free since it is finally over. Very Unfair, but I just like to pretend I lost it all in the stock market or overpaid my next house by 11k.

Anyways, I'm young and will make it back, and hopefully this expensive lesson keeps me out of worse trouble in the future by making me a lot more skeptical of anything sounding like a really sweet deal that I don't fully understand. hell - after this I wasn't sure if this website was government run to trying to convince people to come forward or run by someone else since you keep recommending the same people. I now have a "trust no one you don't meet in person" attitude.

Well that felt good just getting that off my chest.

And if any tax assessor read this, you should really try and see what really happened. I'm all in favor of cracking down on tax fraud. But might want to make sure the people you punish deserve it. Look at what REALLY happened to ALL OF US. We don't have the resources to fight the government in court to prove our innocence, so we automatically lose. Usually you think of people being scammed as the elderly or uneducated. I'm have an Engineering degree, MBA and relatively young. Had they advertised even more they would have got a lot more people.

I pray for all of you that this destroys financially.

Take Care

P.S. - Sorry for any grammer/spelling errors, as I just wrote stream of consciencence to get this off my chest.

This guy, we all feel the same way as you do (only some of us are not young). Those of us who have not said these words about our being victims will say them when we are audited and victimized again.

I did my taxes for 2004 and sent them in late since I was in the process of moving for a new job. I had a refund coming I assumed that the IRS would keep it because I owed the back taxes and they did not so I am more confused then ever. If I owe them money why did they give me my refund back? Can anyone help me with this question?

If back taxes aren't paid, the interest keeps accruing. If the IRS sends it back, and you turn around and send it back to them, they get more. (Just a guess...)

Doesn't make much sense, but you'll still have to pay it with interest. Do you have a payment plan? If so, they are probably following that agreement.

If you have a "payback" agreement with the IRS, they usually don't keep your future taxe refunds because in the long run they get more with the payment plan (more interest accrues).

***** TIME SENSITIVE *****

The NADN bankruptcy trustee has essentially forced Pacifica Labs, the parent company of Keyword Gold, out of business. It will cost too much money to fight the trustee, so they are going out of business. Pacifica Labs operated for 5 years and only worked with NADN for 90 days, NADN owed them a lot of money, but the trustee is still going after them...long story.

If you have a Keyword Gold account, Please act quickly while the server is still on. Update all of the search engine information, etc., and forward all of the Welcome letters to yourself so you can continue to load them yourself later if you still have a website to promote.

Server will go off on or before Sunday, 6/19/05

Your Keyword Gold Pay Per Click Member Account:

You can login from:
http://www.keywordgold.tv/clogin.php

Your Login and Password information are in your Welcome letter.

If you need more information, contact me through my website.

Interesting....

NADN's old URL is for sale. Anyone want to purchase the headache of thousands of angry emails? Bet you'd get lots of hits (but not just from the computer).

http://www.buydomains.com/home_premium.jsp?domain=awayirs.com&pop=false

or
http://www.seeq.com/popupwrapper.jsp?referrer=&domain=awayirs.com

This should be good news for anyone who is incorporated or just needs help with legitimate corporation issues.

I have been in correspondence with a firm that is familiar with the incorporation problems NADN, Nevada Corporate Headquarters (NCH), and some of Cort Christie's other unsavory and unethical companies created. Bonnie Simon of Corporate Credibility, LLC, has asked me to pass this offer of help to each of you. I also have her website link posted on my website.

Here is Bonnie's message to you:

Corporate Credibility, LLC is happy to offer a free 30 minute consultation to any NADN or NCH clients to review their corporate structure. We have worked with a number of clients to help them salvage some of their current entity structure and make it IRS compliant and a "credible" company.

Please call and ask for Bonnie -877-209-0450 or contact us via our website
http://www.cc4yourco.com

Best Wishes,

Bonnie Simon
Corporate Credibility, LLC

Does anyone know (no speculation, please) if Cort Christie or NCH has been indicted or is the subject or target of any criminal investigation? Have there been any allegations or documented cases of impropriety regarding NCH's resident agent and incorporation services?

Looking for some objective information, remember , this is America, innocent until proven guilty... Thanks.

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to the site but been really busy. I do not have an agreement with the IRS. I just send a check and am waiting to see what will happen. I paid everything but the penalities. I am working on getting those thrown out. Hope it works since the penalities are about 40%. Does anyone know what luck I may have with the penaltities. I working through etaxes. Like everyone else I feel like I am getting a raw deal from the IRS, it is not like I was trying to screw them.

i haven't been to the site in a couple months but i wanted to let others know that the Appeals process worked for me, so its worth it for others to try too. The company I hired was able to get all my penalities taken off as well as a much lower interest payment. In all they saved me about $7000 off the $21000 I owed the IRS.

How sad that this site seems to have lost most of its steam. I guess we have mostly given up and accepted that the IRS calls the shots. It's a shame...but I've done the same thing. I settled and am moving on. Even the theft loss to the IRS when the bankrupcy is settled will be a sham. None of the money will be recovered as the deductibles are too high. It is just lost money and a lost cause, and for me it is time to cut the cord.

I am guessing this information is probably mute at this point as the websites are now offline but just fealt i should warn you anyways.

Pacifica Labs, Keywordgold is another rip off attempt. RUN do not walk from anyone from these companies you will get ripped off. This is the same person that ran IBB.com in the late 90's and hitsgalore.com after that.

http://badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff121927.htm

http://www.ftc.gov/os/1998/03/complain.htm

http://www.mmfhoh.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=56

http://www.wyca.com/summary/hitt-sum.htm

http://bankrupt.com/CAR_Public/990615.MBX (search hits galore)

Hope this helps someone

Excellent article.

The Warning Signs Of Online Fraud And How To Avoid It

Whether you are looking to buy or sell goods online, the first - and the best - way to fight fraud is prevention. There are certain warning signs to watch for, which should set off a chorus of alarms and flashing red lights in your head....

http://www.niche-articles.com/res/online-fraud/

By the way, I haven't given up, and I am just waiting for the ruling on my appeal from the Tax Court. I still get new contacts from victims just now receiving their notices, so just remember, "It ain't over 'till it's over."

I haven't "given up" either - though I've been billed by the IRS. I will continue to monitor this posting and wait for new developments. I'm not too optimistic but there must be some justice. I just can't believe this is America and I went before the judge and jury before I was even told about it!

Thanks Chris for this important forum and thanks Opaobie for your support!

Thanks Chris for this important forum and thanks Opaobie for your support!

The big question that still has not been answered....WHY AREN'T THE ONES WHO SET UP THIS SCAM IN JAIL YET!!!!"

I also have not given up. I hope that the government sees that we are not the bad guys that we were scamed. I also hope the folks that scammed us do end up in jail and have to make restitution to all of us. It would be nice if they not only had to pay us what we paid them but also pay what we all owe the IRS.
Although I don't know if they really care. Think about the new law that your home can be taken away to put up a strip mall if the city decides it is for the better of the community.

IT'S THE TRICKLE-UP THEORY.

Just checking in to let you know your interests are still being looked after by good people as well as ... guess I can't insinuate that the IRS is "bad" ... as well as "those who believe you owe them a lot of money" even though YOU were the victims of a scam perpetrated by THEIR former colleagues. I MAY have an update in the not too distant future, but for now, just keep hope alive.

A colleague sent me an eBook Internet Glossary that I can give away free. We all see terms we may not understand but are too embarassed to ask anyone about, so now just download this ".pdf" book and look them up yourself. You can give it away if you want. He put my business URL, my email address, and a couple of useful sites (like inexpensive web hosting and promotion) on the first page as well as a couple of "clickable links"...the rest of the book is just pure glossary. This is NOT an ad, it is just a freebie.

...I always wondered what that little blue "RSS" thing was up in the address bar on this site. Now I know, and I linked up to it. If you don't know, read the book. :)

(Right-Click and "Save Target" or click and open the .pdf document).

http://www.opaobie.com/download/Internet-Glossary.pdf

...now you will always be able to contact me if you need updates.

opaobie
I had to rebuild my pc and I lost all the listings in my address book. Please email me.
Thanks,
Evelyn

Just received a "friendly" letter from the Treasury Dept.
How we changed your account
Account balance before the audit None
Increase in tax because of audit $5,649.00
Fileing late penalty added $607.65
Civil penalty added $2,259.60
Interest charged $863.45
Amount you now owe $9,379.70
This is for year 2002. There is no difference from what NADN scammed me out of, thats just what I filed for in the Las Vegas Court. This is more or less what NADN TOOK from me, nothing that I owed. OUR WONDERFUL JUSTICE SYSTEM and THE IRS.

Hi Evelyn, you can always reach me through the "Contact Us" button on my webite. Click on "Opaobie" to get to my site.

Virginia, if you need some help or would like some information to help you proceed, visit this page:

http://www.opaobie.com/Synopsis.html

...and you can also contact me if you need more help.

My wife and I have made our last payment to the IRS. We hired an attorney, who was worthless, he told us to pay the IRS through him and not to appeal. We ignored his advice and called the IRS. I explained our situation. asked if they would read a letter of explanation. They said yes, I asked to have all penalties cancelled, and they did. I wrote our attorney asking for a partial refund, since his advice was bad, but alas, he is as dishonest as NADN. At least it is over for us. What a nightmare. All we can do now is to vote in reps that advocate restructuring the tax system.

Got a nice letter from the IRS Appeals division from the individual who will be reviewing my case...need to make a phone call as soon as I finish posting this...

In the continuing effort to help us find inexpensive methods to generate revenue, I have been working with several top business and marketing individuals, and I have something to offer. Just visit my explanatory website (no, it doesn't capture your info, just provides instructions and links) and decide for yourself whether you want to participate. Contact me with any questions.

http://www.opaobie.com/goldencan.html

I don't make anything off this proposal, I only earn revenue through my own sales of products and services, just as you will -- it's NOT an MLM thing. No "pie in the sky" promises, but the potential is high for anyone who implements the business strategy to make a great deal of money. The concept is pure genius, and every aspect of the business is squeaky clean. Commission Junction even made me fax them a form W-9. It is a very simple, step by step process that I set up in less than one day (including many interruptions), and I even had time to build the explanation page itself so others would have a clear set of instructions to make the process go even faster and smoother. You don't have to build a page like mine, all you need is a website, even a simple personal one if they let you add one line of code to it...Oh, yeah, after you set up your account, you click a button, it creates ONE LINE OF CODE which you copy and paste into your own website, and you NEVER have to edit that code again. You update and add merchants in your back office, and they automatically show up on your website. Chris could even put it on this page. All of the very professional sites that provide the sales and pay the commissions are already in exsistence and have been for years, like "Amazon.com", with the exception of new merchants being added all the time. I added two this morning in about 5 minutes...need any tools? It is extremely easy once you have done it...honest. I will continue to add merchants, so next time you visit my page, it just may have grown...along with the potential to appeal to a different visitor's needs and make a new sale.

Visit the page, try out the demonstrations as I suggest, and then make up your own mind...you can even make purchases if you want...it is a fully working site. I have yet to type in a product into the search engine and not get a ton of choices. Try it. If you don't make any money over a 6 month or so period, Commission Junction and Amazon.com may cancel your accounts, but that shouldn't happen if you simply promote it with any kind of seriousness.

http://www.opaobie.com/goldencan.html

Kansas City Business Journal - 2:33 PM CDT Thursday August 18, 2005

Tax preparer gets probation in phony shelters scheme

A former Gladstone tax preparer was sentenced Thursday in federal court for his role in a scheme that involved phony tax shelters.

Donald Hicks, 72, was sentenced to five years of probation by U.S. District Judge Fernando Gaitan, according to a news release issued Thursday by Todd Graves, U.S. Attorney for Missouri's Western District. The court deferred restitution to the Internal Revenue Service for calculation and collection.

Hicks, who was an insurance agent and tax preparer, pleaded guilty April 22 to a charge contained in an October 2004 federal indictment. He admitted to preparing 372 false tax returns fraudulently claiming entitlement to the disabled tax credit. The tax loss associated with the fraudulent returns, prepared between 2000 and 2002, totaled $1.29 million, according to Graves.

Don Ledford, a spokesman for Graves, said the Hicks' conviction was part of a national scheme being investigated and prosecuted by the U.S. Department of Justice.

The scheme involved an Internet shopping site, called ShopN2000, purportedly modified to allow the blind to shop online, which Hicks and other conspirators told their customers made them eligible to claim the Disabled Access Credit and a business deduction. Hicks promoted ShopN2000 in conjunction with Oryan Management and Financial Services, an Upland, Calif., company.

Hicks and other conspirators collected $2,000 from each taxpayer and had each one sign a promissory note for $8,475. They then prepared federal tax returns that claimed a $5,000 disability credit and business expenses of $5,475, according to Graves' news release.

Ledford said ShopN2000 was a tax fraud because the deductions and credits it claimed were based on false representations and statements.

"In reality, they didn't have a real business to start with, and they didn't need to make any modifications to it to make handicapped people have any access to it," he said. "So in both cases, they struck out."

I'm at least glad to see the tax preparers getting some accountability for what they've done. They were the ones who signed the returns, and they should be held accountable. I don't know what 5 years of probation amounts to...that's not much of a deterrent. Why are white collar criminals treated so gingerly? If someone broke into my house and took $2000, they would certainly go to jail! but someone who worked for a fraudulent business, perpared false tax returns, bilking customers out of thousands of dollars will never see the inside of a cell.

I am supposed to talk with my tax attorney this week, his initial reaction was that the IRS is cracking down on tax shelters and would not dismiss the penalties, I told him some other victims have had thier penalties dismissed, can anyone tell me how he should proceed? Is there a special contact in the IRS handling these cases rather than the person whose name appears on the "package". Thanks in advance for any help.
Ed

Ed,

from my observations, the IRS will sometimes dismiss penalties if you give them good reason... and you could try that before even going in front of a panel, but it depends on who your contact is. Some have done it and some in the IRS say it's not possible. In fact, they say "the law's the law" but I see that it is not applied evenly - even in our case.

What gets me is the "Son of a Boss" program where the rich knowingly defrauded the government in an abusive tax shelter scheme. I think the total damage was in the billions but the IRS settled with the participants for about half of what the law states. We, on the other hand, are (I assume) not rich since we would not decide to get involved in a business that requires management and marketing (work)in exchange for a reasonable and honest profit.
The IRS will tell you "if it's too good to be true, then it probably isn't" but that's exactly what I think when I see what they offered the millionaire scammers - too good to be true. An ADA credit sounds good but not "too" good, considering how our laws apply to business - it seems corporations have more rights than people sometimes.

Which reminds me... why was the mall business, itself, deemed "bogus?" I had never actually placed an order since I was busy incorporating the mall with another website at the time and all effort was directed to the parent site (it was intended to be residual) so I wasn't actively promoting the mall. Was it not possible to order products and receive a comission?

Anyway, we all know the tax code needs a reform and it really is a shame to see honest people get caught in the gears of a big money guzzling machine. The last thing I needed when I got involved was a tangle with the IRS but I trusted the touted credentials of the former IRS agents.

I still believe, though I've lost some faith in the system. I did my own taxes last year but I think I will have them re-done by another professional. I am honest and will claim what's due to me... for I WORK for my money, but I know I am a marked man.

If you're a criminal, you better have some money (takes money to make money) and wear a white collar... then probation is probably the worst that will happen to you. Now THAT sounds too good to be true.

end of rant.

Steve

Well, I haven't written on here for quite some time, but I decided to share my experience with y'all. After discussing this with my IRS contact and going round and round with him, I decided to just suck it up and pay the full amount requested.
We paid around 10,000 in all and while it was a incredible set back in my goal to be debt free, it sure was nice to get it taken care of.
Several weeks later we received a refund check for around $500.00 from the IRS stating overpayment.

Anyway, I'm done with it and moving on.

If you haven't visited my Synopsis page lately, you might want to take a look. I know new visitors stop by here often but don't always post. Some of the questions and comments are just like the ones we had when we first arrived, and the answers are still the same. Anyway, yes, the online sites were capable of conducting sales, I have posted one sale that was made through my ShopN2000 site on my synopsis page that I verified by contacting the selling company, but it doesn't matter because the IRS has ruled the malls were not a business, so you are wasting your time pursuing that tact. You will have to write off all losses as "theft loss" and not until the year you can absolutely claim there is no chance of recovery, and if you make more than about $30,000 per year, you make too much to be able to deduct a penney of the loss anyway, so the rulings by the IRS deny any deductions or loss claims at all. I'm still waiting for the first indictment against Cort Christie or any of the other principals, but meantime, we are all being sought out by the IRS like America's most wanted.

I believe I offer ample argument to allow the IRS to drop penalties and even interest, but whether they will or not is up to the individual you deal with and how persuasive you are in presenting your own case.

Here is the URL once more:

Are you a victim of National Audit Defense Network (NADN)? -- and now, the IRS
http://www.opaobie.com/Synopsis.html

In the past few days, we have had 3 conferences with Appeals representing 5 clients and all have been very successful. In each case the penalty will be reduced to 10%. Anyone who still has a case and would like us to represent them should contact me at 650.742.7700 or visit us at www.eTaxes.com.

For the record, I have read various accounts of how many individuals were involved in the NADN/Oryan tax scam and the correct number is approximately 10,000 taxpayers.

I have also learned that no cases have yet gone to Tax Court, but that ONE case contesting penalties coming out of Texas MAY go to Court. The amount at issue in that case is very small. Appeals has agreed to reduce the penalty to 10%, but an attorney may choose to go to Court anyhow. Supposedly, the attorney is an older gentleman and is taking the case pro-bono. I'll update the board as I get additional information.

I have been searching for other information concerning NADN, etc. I found a very informative site operated by very savvy folks and with discussions conductd by also very savvy folks. I posted an update and have asked for any help or additional information, and today, got this notification of a reply. If you decide to post on this site, you might be well advised not to just whine or to be insulting, especially to the IRS -- reasonable criticism is perfectly acceptable. I hope you understand what I am saying. Discretion and manners go a long way on this site.

Anyway, you might want to read the latest post and see what you make of it. I found it very interesting.

http://www.quatloos.com/TaxForums/viewtopic.php?p=103377#103377

Also, there may be some movement soon on the lawsuit. I will update to the list as soon as I get the particulars.

Does anyone know what is the status of the promisary notes signed for the 'shopn2000' websites? Do we still own that money?

Steve, actually the number was closer to 6000 taxpayers and 14000-16000 malls sold. Where did you get your numbers?

Rich, how can you owe for something that is no longer functioning? If something is out of business, they can't accept (or expect) your payments.

Please check my "Synopsis" page periodically. I may have some updates soon. For those who are new to this site or who still have questions concerning old issues, I may have the answers to your questions on my synopsis page.

Click on my "opaobie" link under this message and then click on the text link along the right side of the page on my site that says "Are you a victim of National Audit Defense Network (NADN)? -- and now, the IRS"

I invested in Mallforall for 2002 and again for 2003. I received a $5000 dollars in my tax return from the 2002 taxes, which NADN did. I paid out approximately $3000 in 2002 to NADN and $2500 for 2003. I then received notice of the impending bankruptcy prior to NADN completing my 2003 tax return. In October 2004 I had my taxes for both 2002 and 2003 done and sent in by my own CPA and was told that I owed $5,195 to the IRS for overpayment plus 40% in penalties and interest on top of that. All that just for 2002. I had no issue with 2003 since the tax return I filed for 2003 didn't include the ADA credit for the mallforall. I'm sure that I read in the legal paperwork (court case) from the IRS) that the promissory notes are not valid and no money is owed for those that were signed. To date I agreed that if I was not due the $5,195 on my tax return then I would pay that back. However, I disagreed with the 40% penalty they wanted to charge me. I ended up filing some form they sent me stating my disagreement and the reasons why I felt I should not be charged. Within a couple of days I received notice that basically it was too bad and the penalty remained as assessed. I ignored them and also had not made payment on the back taxes I agreed I owed. Finally the appeals office called me last month and agreed to drop the penalty from 40% to 20%. I decided to just agree and get it over with and pay the whole thing in one big painful chunk. The cover letter I received from the appeals office showed my tax owed at $5,195 Penalties at $1,039 and an "estimate" for interest for both tax and penalties at $840.23. Today I called the appeals office to take care of the situation and went in to check my bank account and found the IRS has issued a tax levy against me TAKING, WITHOUT NOTIFICATION OR PERMISSION over $6,000 from my account and a $30 fee on top of that. This means that according to the IRS I owed them $886 dollars in interest on the $5,195 back taxes not including the penalties or the interest they will charge me on that. I now have my doubts about whether I will agree to pay that much in penalties considering how badly they are gouging me in interest alone. I'm starting to think I should have gotten myself a lawyer to begin with instead of trying to fight my way thru all the legal ease thrust upon me by the IRS. What an expensive mistake this has turned out to be. Contacted Steve Kassel's office this morning for advice. I'm waiting for a call back to find out if I should just accept this abuse or fight it. May have already messed up by agreeing to pay the back taxes. I'm dazed and confused over this whole thing and the IRS has taken full advantage of it. Gee, what a surprise. All in all, can’t say for anyone else, I‘ve lost around $5000 I paid out to NADN and at the IRS’s claim I own them approximately $8,000 for overpayment, penalties and interest. That was an expensive lesson.

Kim, what a nightmare! What you describe is exactly why I settled early (although with many misgivings). I was afraid of just what you describe. I felt I did not owe the penalties, either, but paid them (at 40%!) to be done with this and move on. Only one year, but that was enough after already paying NADN for the malls, the marketing plans, etc., in addition to IRS disallowing ALL of those investments as well as the tax credits taken. It was an expensive lesson most of us could not afford (otherwise we would not have been looking for a business to run on line!) Anyway, being "in the same boat" doesn't help your situation, but it may help to know that you aren't the only one who got taken, and taken big!!

Has anyone received any response from the Nevada Bankruptcy Court? According to my CPA, most of us who invested in NADN heavily have little hope of recovering funds from the court because unless we had secured (real property, etc.) accounts with NADN, we are on the bottom rung of the food chain ladder. The IRS will not allow any theft/loss deductions since there is a chance (albeit remote) of recovering pennies-on-the-dollar from the bankruptcy.
I wrote a thirty page dissertation to the IRS explaining why they should not charge my former corporation penalties and interest. This saved me about $4000 (over half) in p&i. This venture cost me approximately $30K to the IRS, an invested $22.8K to NV Bankruptcy loss, and cost an approximately $15K online, 6 website fledgling retail business (non-NADN).
I am able to save my real property, credit and good name.

I hope those indicted sleep well in prison; my advice to the men....sleep on your back.

The Bankruptcy Trustee for NADN is currently looking for individuals who purchased the Mall4All or ShopN2000 products during 2002-2004.

The Trustee’s attorneys would like to interview you for information in pursuing NADN’s principals for possible misrepresentation in selling the product. If you reside in the Las Vegas or San Diego areas, please contact witness@nadn.org with your contact information.

Anybody who fell for the above obviously phony post should realize they haven't gotten any smarter since they got scammed in the first place.

Oh THANK YOU "witness@nadn.org"!!! I am so happy you have chosen to make such a kind offer to help us from our plight. I am quickly sending you information concerning a matter which I believe will help you gather the information you need. It concerns a large sum of money which was placed into my care by an agent of the financial management firm "Dewey, Cheatam, and Howe", former Controller of the NADN, to shield it from the unfair eyes of the Bankruptcy Trustee. Please send me your Bank Name, Bank Account Number, and Bank Routing Number using my online form (click on my worthless name below to reach my website) so that I may seruptitiously deposit the tainted funds into your account so that you may discreetly with high rapidity return them to the victims of this vicious and heartless scam. (Fortunately, the Bankruptcy Trustee's lawyers have forgotten that they have the complete list of all victims who have filed Proof of Claim forms with the court, so they must depend on you to reach the victims.)

I await your reprehensible contact retroactively.

Your most thankful friend and new associate,

Myself

...meanwhile, back at the ranch, Tonto not knowing the Lone Ranger was disguised as a pool table, racked his....never mind.

Please visit this site ASAP.
http://fairtax.org/

Also, they have an alert out asking for everyone to take the following action:

FAIRTAX ACTION ALERT

ISSUE: Now it is the time to roar!

ACTION: Please e-mail letters, fax communications and call the Secretary of the Treasury office to support the FairTax.

It is important that you communicate to Treasury Secretary John Snow in the next 48 hours your support of the FairTax.

Background: The President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform recently tried to bury the FairTax by using false assumptions and inaccurate research. Their findings, however, have been almost universally condemned as a failure of vision and a continuation of the Washington insider's game. Secretary Snow now must provide his best advice to President Bush on how to reform the federal income tax system. FairTax advocates must now organize the most massive outpouring of taxpayer communications to express your anger over the failure of the Panel to recommend any fundamental change to the dysfunctional federal income tax system.

Your Communications should cite these Reasons to Support the FairTax in your own words:

1. The President should support HR 25 and help enact the FairTax for the good of the nation. The President's Tax Advisory Panel ignored multi-million dollar research and misstated the effects of the FairTax in order to protect the status quo.
2. President Bush charged the Tax Advisory Panel with recommending a plan to promote simplicity, fairness, and transparency. Instead, the Panel merely tinkered with the current complex and confusing tax code, making it even more complex. Not one serious economist could be found to endorse the current system while many highly regarded economists support the FairTax.
3. The Tax Panel's recommendations benefit lobbyists, law firms, and tax advisors and not the American people. The Panel essentially endorsed the current failed system and there was no effort to analyze the FairTax.
4. The FairTax replaces all federal income and payroll taxes with a revenue neutral, 23% national sales tax.
5. The FairTax is fair because it:
o Has No exceptions, No exclusions = No loopholes
o Untaxes the poor through a prebate
o Enables workers and retirees to keep 100% of their paychecks
o Encourages greater savings, investment, job creation, productivity, and economic growth
o Increases taxpayer compliance while reducing compliance costs
o Eliminates the stifling bureaucracy of the IRS
6. The FairTax has strong and growing support among the public because it replaces a broken and destructive tax system with a simple, transparent, and fair retail sales tax that is good for all Americans.
7. The Treasury Department should offer alternatives to the President which include the FairTax since only the FairTax reflects the will of the American people and the principles that President Bush defined as the basis for true tax reform.

Send your letter to:

Honorable John Snow,
Secretary of the Treasury
E-mail: john.snow@do.treas.gov
FAX number: 202-622-0073
Phone number: 202-622-1100

Please open with: Dear Secretary Snow

Please Enlist the Help of Friends, Colleagues and Concerned Citizens Now for This Effort. Now is the Moment for FairTax Advocates to be Heard at the Highest Levels of our Government.

Similar Correspondence Should be Sent to Your Senators and Representatives Urging them to Write Secretary Snow to Reject the Panel's Recommendations and Offer the White House Alternatives that Represent True Reform.

Send copies of your communications to info@fairtax.org so we can better judge the impact of our work.

Leo Linbeck
Chairman/CEO
Americans For Fair Taxation

ALSO,

If you haven't bought this book, consider buying it and sending copies to your Representative and your Senators -- and all your friends.

http://www.opaobie.com/GCHomepart2.html?&goldencanstype=false&goldencansiteid=801&goldencanasin=0060875410&goldencancid=1474

Some of you will want to check out this web site.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=150072,00.html

Please understand that the reference above has NOTHING whatsoever to do so with the NADN cases. That IRS initiative is for a specific set of abusive transactions and settlements of those cases. However, you should be aware that if you filed a Tax Court petition for your NADN case, you will end up with similar results. In fact, in each and every case that we have handled thus far, we have had the penalties reduced to a flat 10% of the tax due. I cannot tell you the outcome for individuals that did not file a Tax Court petition, but I expect to have news on those cases soon.

The 10% penalty is extended by Appeals to cases that do not go to trial. It is irrelevant whether a protest or a Tax Court petition is filed.
This settlement guideline is not consistently applied throughout the country. In many areas, Appeals is holding fast to the 20% penalty.
Properly argued cases can be closed at the Agent level with no penalty assessed.
To be successful in a tax case, your arguments must conform to IRS rules and regulation. If you don't know what those are, get help. Don't count on sympathy or pity to get you through.
Also, don't get paranoid and think the IRS is out to screw you. If you work within the system, you'll get the result you want.

Very good comments by dickgtax. If you are uncertain on how to handle the situation, I would have two suggestions for you.

1) Write a check, suck it up and move on.

2) Contact a tax agent (EA, enrolled agent) or some other legally qualified professional that deals with these situations on a regular basis and trust them to make the best of the situation.

Either way, you have to cut some checks here. I think everyone should look into option #2, unless the amount is very small and you can just write the check and move on, then you might want to consider option #1. But if you have not contacted a professional OR resolved to pay the IRS in full or at least agree on a payment plan, then you are not handling the situation responsibly. It's a new year: time to grab onto the reins and take control of the situation.

Do not forget to amend any tax return that had a 1099 for the bogus promissory note payoff through the famous "click off" method. That was not valid income and the IRS will accept this amendment. It will take a little of the sting out of this situation.

Hi,
My brother was a MallforAll subscriber and had NADC do his taxes (not sure all years that apply). He was tragically killed in an auto accident a week ago and I'm shocked to find all of the trouble that these fraudulent groups have caused to thousands of innocent citizens. The IRS just zapped my brother's account for $6,000 due to the fraud committed by NADC for the 2002 tax year. I'm hoping they were not involved in his 2003 taxes. My heart goes out to everyone trying to unravel this mess. It burns me to the core. I hope the entire bloody group goes to jail. If anyone has any tips for me, please let me know. As I'm sure it is difficult for everyone trying to unravel their own tax mess, it is doubly hard to unravel someone elses.
Signed,
MAD in Illinois - Joey

dickgtax's information is completely incorrect. In fact, the settlement guidelines ARE being followed in every single case. You will NOT get any case with ZERO penalties. Period. I have handled over 25 of these cases very successfully and there have been no surprises at all and there is NO contradictory information except for this one nonsensical post. If the poster has verified information, he should contact me directly. Otherwise, his information is garbage.

To say that the IRS zapped your brothers account because of NADN's fraud is missing a lot of steps that occurred in between. There probably was an audit, a proposed adjustment, an opportunity to appeal, an opportunity to file a Tax Court petition, a notice of assessment, a demand for payment, an opportunity for an installment agreement,..etc. In other words, your brother probably ignored all the notices as many people do, and eventually what happens is an IRS levy on a bank account or on wages.
The best way to resolve this is: first, find out what happened. Then there may be an opportunity for the executor of the estate to file an administrative claim for refund and get what's called an "audit reconsideration."
Also, if 21 days have not passed since the levy was put on the bank account, it may still be possible to stop the levy, because the bank only put a "hold" on the funds. They don't remit the money until that time period has expired.
Best advice: If there is a surviving spouse of an executor, you might be able to contact the IRS and file a Collection Appeal to stop the levy. If not, take some time to find out what happened, and then come back to this forum with more information.

To say that the IRS zapped your brothers account because of NADN's fraud is missing a lot of steps that occurred in between. There probably was an audit, a proposed adjustment, an opportunity to appeal, an opportunity to file a Tax Court petition, a notice of assessment, a demand for payment, an opportunity for an installment agreement,..etc. In other words, your brother probably ignored all the notices as many people do, and eventually what happens is an IRS levy on a bank account or on wages.
The best way to resolve this is: first, find out what happened. Then there may be an opportunity for the executor of the estate to file an administrative claim for refund and get what's called an "audit reconsideration."
Also, if 21 days have not passed since the levy was put on the bank account, it may still be possible to stop the levy, because the bank only put a "hold" on the funds. They don't remit the money until that time period has expired.
Best advice: If there is a surviving spouse of an executor, you might be able to contact the IRS and file a Collection Appeal to stop the levy. If not, take some time to find out what happened, and then come back to this forum with more information.

Just to make clear, dickgtax did NOT supply me with any information to back up his ridiculous post of January 5th thus proving my assertions that his statements are complete nonsense. Since my last post I have closed three more cases with the penalties being knocked down from 20% & 40% respectively to 10%.

Dear Dick.......
Yes, my brother did go through all of the steps required by the IRS and yes, he had filed his appeal and he had been working closely with an IRS agent before his tragic death. The point of my anger is NOT that the IRS is out doing their jobs (although debating the tax advantages of the weathy vs. the middle-class could be discussed for hours) - but rather that the crooks at NADN who told thousands they were allowed to include the credit(s) that they clearly were not is what burns me. Had my brother or anyone else, just done their taxes without that little piece of fradulent information, it would have saved a lot of people a lot of heartache.

Joey,
My condolences to you on your brother's death. I also lost a brother at a young age, so I appreciate what you're going through.
Again, IRS procedures work a certain way. If your brother was working with an IRS agent before his death, they should not have levied on his bank account. You have the right to demand that the levy be released, and the right to appeal if it is not.
NADN is symptomatic of the culture of lies that exists in our society. You cannot simply accept what someone tells you, even, as in the case of NADN, if the IRS allows that company to defraud people as long as it did.
NADN did not invent this phony tax scheme. Oryan was promoting the Americans with Disabilities tax credit scheme for years before they joined with NADN. NADN had simply become a powerful telemarketing company that could, and did, successfully market that program.
The IRS is not structured to shut down companies that deceive the public with phony tax programs. It is the U.S. Department of Justice that is responsible for obtaining injunctions and prosecuting people for tax violations.The DOJ has limited people and resources, and doesn't act swiftly. In NADN's case there had been FTC injunctions, and finally it was the Bankruptcy Court that shut down the company.
I guess what I'm saying is that everyone shares the blame.
With respect to your brother's case. You have recourse to get that money back. The IRS can't just take it.
For all those people who feel they got a raw deal from the IRS, you don't have to give up.
Unless you settled in Tax Court, you can file a claim for refund within two years of the time you paid the tax, and get another hearing with an IRS Agent or Appeals Officer - even having your case heard in the U.S. District Court, or U.S. Court of Appeals. You have more rights than you think when dealing with the IRS. Your just have to know what they are.

That last post came from "dickgtax" not "dockets."

The Bankruptcy Court shut down the company??? From what source did you get that absurd information?

The June 10,2004 news release from the Department of Justice website.

Here we are another month later and dickgtax has NEVER supplied me with his documentation for the obvious reason. He was lying. Additionally, I have 13 clients whose cases are on the Tax Court calendar for March 13 and have reached settlement on each and EVERY case for a 10% penalty. They are all being finalized as we speak. In fact, I have been working all day on these cases.

Steve you sound like a grumpy man, I think you might need a vacation. Based on the angry comments I've seen you post on this message board, I wouldn't hire you if my life depended on it. Everyone of us has had a slightly different experience on this. I don't doubt that you are very good at what you do, but just because you have consistently closed with 10% penalties doesn't mean your experience is the "rule". I question the character of people who call others a "liar" with out the benefit of that persons experience. Not everyone has the time to send you documents so that you will be convinced.
After looking at my options I ended up deciding to pay the IRS the amount they said I owed, chalk the whole thing up as a life lesson and move on. I just thank the Lord for the blessings he has given me throughout my life and to my surprise the IRS sent me a check back for a $400 refund of the total amount. It's only money, and there are a lot more important things in life.

The only reason you got a refund is that you overpaid. You didn't get any reduction in penalties as my clients did. EVERY single one of them did, without exception. I deal in the truth, not fiction and unfortunately you don't understand that.

Yeah, but I didn't have to pay you and drag it out further for an amount that probably would have equaled out anyway. I figure for the fee you were charging to fight it and the money they returned to me, I did alright. I paid what the audit stated I owed and they still returned almost a 1/3 of my overall penalty to me. It might not be the right solution for everyone else, but even if I overpaid I'm personally glad I didn't give you any money. Have a nice day!

For anyone interested in joining discussions or learning about new tax concepts such as the "Fair Tax", here is a forum just for that.

http://fairtaxgroups.com/index.php

...wouldn't you know, I just had to add our story to the topic string "Must-Read Articles"...see if you can find it. :)

If we had a flat tax system, none of this would have ever happened. Imagine how much fraud would never happen! We aren't the only ones out there with these types of problems!

I haven't posted here in quite some time. I settled my problems with the IRS last year; paid what I had to; and moved on from all this crap. I estimate I lost $14000 all together between what I paid to NADN and what I paid back to the IRS. Many here lost much more. Like many of you, I trusted and believed this was a legitimate business venture. Folks make money from the Internet as affiliates of well known stores all the time. This seemed the same except with an added perk which also looked legitimate on the surface. After all, who can you trust if you can't trust TAX EXPERTS? The sad part in all this is even the most experienced of IRS Agents can't tell you how to interpret the Tax Codes and even if you let the IRS do your taxes there is a 50/50 chance mistakes will be made. So who can you trust?
All this craziness has made me a strong advocate of tax reform. I urge all of you to really look at all this stuff both from an historical perspective and an objective one and you'll realize that the Income Tax, originally installed to "tax the rich" and all the other Tax Codes we have in place now are there mainly to satisfy special interest groups. True tax reform will only come about if enough pressure is placed on Congress to abolish the current system completely. The INCOME TAX needs to be abolished and in it's place there should be a National Sales Tax. There will be no more IRS, no more forms to fill out, and no more deductions to seek. You will be taxed on the goods and services you buy instead. The more you spend; the more in taxes you pay. Please, I urge all you to at least begin to read and do your own research. If you want more on the subject of a National Sales Tax you can go to www.fairtax.org; but even if you disagree with this, at least do the research on Income Tax, the IRS, the AMT and all the insanity of a system that is out-of-control and unfair.
And pass along this banner to everyone you know because the system in place now is unfair and unequally applied. There are too many ways for buisnesses to cheat and too many loopholes for the wealthy.
Back in the 1700s a small group of angry patriots boycotted British Tea to demonstrate their disgust at taxation without representation. They dumped the tea into Boston Harbor and helped lead the way towards independence. Today we have taxation without representation again because our so-called representatives have literally turned their backs on true tax reform.
It's time now to move past what happened. We can't change what was. But we can certainly band together and change what is.

Sorry to sound off again so soon but I really can't help myself. I'll call this post THE MYTH OF THE TAX REFUND. Taxpayers are elated when at TAX TIME they fill out their papers and find they are getting a REFUND. The word REFUND means you get back what you overpaid. It means that during the preceding year Uncle Sam had your money and collected interest on it and paid debts with it. So at tax time when you fill out your papers and see that you are getting money back, it is just that (YOU ARE GETTING MONEY BACK ... YOUR OWN MONEY). You paid too much tax and UNCLE SAM Is returning that excess money YOU PAID to you. The irony in this is you don't get any of the INTEREST that money earned. The Governement doesn't autorize the IRS to pay any penalty for holding your excess money. And here's the best part, if you don't file for the money, the Government doesn't have to pay it and you only have 3 years to get it. So for every day you don't file and the government has your money, the government earns interest on that money and if you don't file in three years to get the money the government simply keeps it.

But, and here's the rub, if you owe the governement money it doesn't quite work the same. In fact, every day you are late you are assessed penalties and interest for any money you owe to the government. And if they deem you were "cheating?" there is actually no statute of limitations on how far back they can try to assess fees and penalities and interest!

Does anyone see a problem with this or is it just me? You must file a tax return in order to get back money you paid in excess taxes. You must file to get your own money back (the REFUND). Uncle Sam owes you no interest and pays no penalty to you for eeping your excess tax money and getting interest on it. SOUNDS LIKE A FAIR SYTEM TO ME?

Amen, Ryan!

A flat tax would fix a whole lot of issues. Including the lack of taxes being paid by those dodging the IRS radar and the massive amount of money in taxes that illegal immigrants aren't paying because the work for cash. A flat tax would not only lead to many more tax dollars coming in to the system, but it would also cut down on the amount of money spent by the government to maintain the IRS. The NADN scam would have never existed if a flat tax had been in place. I doubt many CPA's and tax prep companies will be to eager to embrace such a change though. Go figure.

Amen, Ryan!

A flat tax would fix a whole lot of issues. Including the lack of taxes being paid by those dodging the IRS radar and the massive amount of money in taxes that illegal immigrants aren't paying because the work for cash. A flat tax would not only lead to many more tax dollars coming in to the system, but it would also cut down on the amount of money spent by the government to maintain the IRS. The NADN scam would have never existed if a flat tax had been in place. I doubt many CPA's and tax prep companies will be to eager to embrace such a change though. Go figure.

Been a while since there has been this much activity here.

Even since NADN, I have not given up the idea that they presented to me: running an online business - making legit income.

Amazingly lot of information to sort through to find the ones work.

I spent the last six months really digging in to find ones that have simple products with simple steps to follow.

I now have opportunities. 1 of them costs just $10 a month - over time can realistically grow. None of the smoke and mirrors of the mall4all ploy. Written up in Inc. magazine.

Another 1 is now launching on the Internet but has been around a decade. NBC and FOX news recently profiled them. It is a product for saving you fuel cost (up to 19%) in these times of high gas prices. (regular consumers like us did not care about this product before...)

Send me an email and ask me about them:
"nadn-posts AT hotmail.com"
(you need to replace the AT with the @ and remove the spaces.)....................................................

You'll need to copy the following into the body of your email or I won't send you the information, and you need to put your real first and last name at the end along with your state of residence: .........................................................

>>I attest that I am not a member, agent, representative, informant, investigator, or have any relationship whatsoever with any of the following: any United States Federal Agency, any State Agency, the Internal Revenue Service, any law enforcement agency and any private investigative entity, nor will I pass informant information or tips on to any of these agencies or their informants, regarding the request of this information. This email request will not be used for, with or in, any investigation, nor is it to be used for such purposes, either originated by me, or being performed on my behalf, even if without my knowledge or awareness. Attested by me today the date of this email transmission, fname lname, of the state of ____________..............................................................

Call me paranoid if you want. I am an honest guy, but I just don't trust that those agencies understand that. If they did, they would have granted amnesty for this whole thing.

For any of you still negotiating with the Appeals process, the person finalizing my appeals rejection told me the IRS has directed that none of the penalties are to be abated, so if any of you were able to have them abated, either the IRS person who worked your case didn't read that "directive" or my appeals auditor is fibbing...or maybe just isn't interested in examining all the facts of the case. Her position is that "no prudent person would have made this investment", and no amount of evidence or argument to the contrary will be considered.

I'd be interested in any feedback. Use the "Contact Us" link on my website if you don't have my email address.

It's important to know who is saying what when you're in the Appeals process. It's not "the IRS."
A settlement position in sometimes dictated by Area counsel-the IRS attorney in charge of litigating tax cases in your particular area. Sometimes it's the chief of Appeals in your area. Sometimes, it's a National Office directive.
So your first question to the Appeals Officer should be:"Where is that directive coming from?"
If the Appeals Officer says that he/she is bound by the directive, your reply is simply. That's fine, I'll file a petition to the Tax Court, or, if you've already filed a petition, you can take the issue up with Area Counsel.
DO NOT just resign yourself to doing whatever the Appeals Officer tells you to do. Their job is to settle cases, and they don't want the case to go to Tax Court anymore than you do.
You can do all this yourself if you have to. You can represent yourself in a Small Tax Case, and the judge will even help you.

Some questions:

1. What kind of "petition to the tax court" do you mean since we already have a court date in tax court if we are not able to settle the appeal with the Appeals Officer? What would the petition say?

2. Same question regarding what would I say to the Area Counsel? Would I ask what is the source of the "directive" or why are others having penalties abated if mine are not being abated based on some mandated "directive"? Any help is appreciated.

There are two ways that you get to appeals if you have not resolved your case with the examining Agent. When you get the Agent's final report, what is called a "30 day letter," you have 30 days (that time can be extended) to file a protest and ask for an Appeals hearing. The second way is to ignore the "30 day letter, and wait for a Notice of Deficiency. That gives you 90 days to file a Tax Court Petition.
If you choose the first way, you get a hearing with an Appeals Officer, and if you then can't reach a settlement you can file a Tax Court Petition. Your case will be docketted in the U.S. Tax Court, but can still be settled in a pre-trial conference with the IRS attorney .
If you choose the second way, you still get an opportunity to settle the case with an Appeals Officer before the case is prepared for trial. The Appeals Officer has a limited amount of time to settle the case, and then you will negotiate with the IRS attorney.
Which way to go? I generally wait and file a Tax Court Petition. 99% of cases are settled before trial. The government hates to go to trial as much as you do.
Small Tax Case petitions (under $ 50,000) are easy to prepare. It's a one page form, and it doesn't have to be prepared by a lawyer. In fact, you don't need a lawyer at all. Rather than my trying to explain the process, you should just
"Google" "US Tax Court small tax case," and you'll find everything you need.
If you had already filed a petition, and you are now having your hearing with the Appeals Officer, your next step will be to deal with the IRS attorney. You don't have to do anything, the case will go there automatically.
On the issues of penalties, you should point out to the Appeals Officer that penalties have been reduced in other cases. It would help if you could show some examples. It may be that their settlement position has recently changed. In that case, simply tell them that you're going to trial. I believe you can still change your case to a "small tax case," if it wasn't one already. You have to elect to have it treated that way, it isn't automatic just because the tax is less than $ 50,000.

Thank you for the tips, I'll try searching for the "US Tax Court small tax case" info.

If anyone has a successful case where penalties have been abated or a letter that convinced the IRS to abate the penalties, I would certainly appreciate using any part of it that you can share with me. Contact me by clicking on my username "opaobie" to reach me.

For anyone who has contacted me recently and did not receive a reply, I am having some strange problem sending email. The problem may be with my modem, my mail server, or my ISP. I have a new modem and a new router on order. I am receiving your messages, and I will try to reply as soon as we solve the mystery.

Just wanted to share my experience. After trying to get the penalties abated, I filed a petition with the Tax Court. Last year, and arbitrator contacted me and we had a couple conversations. I told them I wanted all the penalties waved. After not hearing from them for quite some time, I assumed they decided to go the court route. Went on vacation and when I came back found out they had made an offer to waive half the penalties. At that point the wife said, lets just get this done. Tried to call the arbitrator, but could not reach him. Get a letter in the mail saying we tried to work it out but you refused, so off to court. Fine by me. Finally get a court date. About 3 weeks before the court date, the IRS attorneys send a letter asking us to settle and pay all the penalties. I refuse and they contact me wanting to meet. (Mind you, I've been asking to meet face to face for 2+ yrs with no luck.) 1 week before trial date I show up at the attorney office with my files and ready to prove my point. Sit down, they ask what I want for a resolution, I tell them all penalties waved. They agreed and handed me the papers saying so. I was out with my resolution in less than 10 minutes. Upset because they dragged it out, but glad it is finally over. BTW, I am an engineer, not a lawyer. If you have your records and stick to your guns, they will settle.

Todd,
Great story! I'd like to know Steve Kassel's opinion. I know you say you were ready for a "fight" but it sounds like you didn't need to argue anything. Is this correct? It's probably allot cheaper for the IRS to settle then to pay their attorney. If any IRS people are out there I'd like to know your opinion of Todd's results.

If you look at my May 8,2006 post you'll see that Todd Alexander did what I said to do, and got even better results than I predicted. That's the way it works. Even though he almost fumbled the ball by not staying in contact with the Appeals Officer, he did present a well prepared case, and, as often happens in Tax Court cases, the government counsel agreed to a favorable settlement because they did not want to go to trial - not because they thought they'd lose, but because it would have been a waste of valuable time for a overburdened Tax Court.
You have seen a lot of bad advice on this forum. Most of it comes from well-meaning, but ill informed victims of NADN; some of it from self-aggrandizing tax professionals looking for business.
There is a certain way the whole tax system works. Like any other area of law, it's hard to find proper guidance - between the free advice from people with opinions, but no knowledge, to lawyer and accountants just trying to take your money.

In case you weren't aware,

"The IRS – famous for hounding citizens who make honest mistakes on their returns – has paid out $10 billion in refunds and credits to illegal aliens who used fraudulent Social Security numbers, and it has no intention of going after those who've made fraudulent claims." -- Minutemen founder Jim Gilchrist and co-author Jerome Corsi.

Here is an interesting article about a case the IRS is bringing for tax evasion. The accused claims the IRS is "grand jury shopping" because in three previous attempts, the grand jury failed to bring charges against him.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51236

Is anything being done about the class action suit or did I miss something in the last 2,000 comments that I've scrolled through?

The class action suit is still progressing. No news at all about the NADN Bankruptcy proceedings, so if anyone knows anything about it, please post it.

I did find this "NADN Stipulated Final Judgment for Permanent Injunction and Other ..." dated August 25, 2006:

http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0123138/060829nadnstipfinal.pdf#search=%22William%20A.%20Leonard%20Las%20Vegas%22

Has anyone received a "NOTICE OF PROPOSED ASSESSMENT," from the State of California? Mine came last month and I'm perplexed. It's $939.83 with interest and penalties, for the year 2002. Good God have mercy, when will this crap end? It's not like I didn't pay California Franchise Board.

Has anyone received a "NOTICE OF PROPOSED ASSESSMENT," from the State of California? Mine came last month and I'm perplexed. It's $939.83 with interest and penalties, for the year 2002. Good God have mercy, when will this crap end? It's not like I didn't pay California Franchise Board.

Things could be worse....

Wesley Snipes indicted on tax fraud...Faces 40 years in jail...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1017061snipes1.html

Check the fine print on your mortgage contract.

I wrote an article for an Ezine concerning the experience we had trying to get our insurance money BACK from our mortgage company to
pay for roof repair following a hail storm back in April. We eventually got it, but not until we jumped through a lot of hoops -- and filed a complaint with the Kansas Banking
Commission. If nothing else good comes of this, at least I can warn others to beware. You can visit the link below if you are curious. Share this article with your family and friends. Who knows, it may end up on "Snopes.com".

...Send it to 10 people. Maybe your next wish will come true.

Your article, "Can Your Mortgage Company Confiscate Your Homeowner's Insurance Damage Claims Proceeds?" - has been accepted and added to the EzineArticles.com
directory:
http://EzineArticles.com/?id=321549

You've also earned Expert Author status:
http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Bruce_Obermeyer

URGENT!!

Anyone who bought a ShopN2000 or Mall4All or other similar shopping mall site directly from Oryan Management or some other agent other than through NADN, please contact me immediately. Use my "Contact Us" button on my website if you do not have my email address. Put CALC or NADN in the subject line if you email me so my filter will move your email to the correct folder and not the SPAM folder since I receive thousands of email messages daily, much of which is SPAM.

There is no activity on this site, but I am wondering if ANYONE has heard ANYTHING about the dispersal of NADN's bankruptcy and all that entails?

This is the last information I have seen.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/0123138/060829nadnstipfinal.pdf
=============================
The links on the Nevada Bankruptcy court website seem to be dead.

http://www.nvb.uscourts.gov/CaseInfo/CaseInfo_MegaCases.htm
=============================
The court should eventually notify all former NADN clients; for sure everyone who filed a Proof of Claim with the court. I will try to contact Mr. Leonard, the trustee, and see if I can find out how the proceedings are going.

Here is the public contact information for Mr. Leonard, the NADN bankruptcy trustee taken from the Chapter 7 Panel Trustees Office Locator website, if anyone wants to contact him and post an update or ask him to post an update.

William A. Leonard, Jr.
5030 Paradise Rd., #B-216
Las Vegas, NV 89119
Phone: (702)262-9322

=====================

The case number is 03-17306, and the Las Vegas court website for the case is here:

http://www.nvb.uscourts.gov/CaseInfo/CaseInfo_MegaCases.htm

It's unrealistic to think there are, or ever will be, any funds available to repay anyone.
It appears that the only potential assets that exist are claims against Robert Bennington's wife and Cort Christie for money paid to them, plus there is a claim against the credit card company for excessive fees. On the the downside, there are claims that I know of AGAINST the bankruptcy receivership by an SEC receiver for a one million dollar loan, and by the IRS for an unknown amount of payroll taxes and income taxes. Add to that any trade creditor, and, of course, what must be huge legal fees by the bankruptcy receiver, and I can't see there being any money at all left for the NADN victims.

I was more interested in find out what "losses" (if any) could be claimed for all the money ill-spent on fraud once this case is all settled. I know for sure there won't be anything coming back from Mall 4 All or NADN! Although I probably will not puruse anything furthter (now that the mess with the IRS is paid and behind me), it is still a point of curiosity. It was a costly lesson in believing what you are sold.

Unfortunately, there is nothing that you can claim on your return. The IRS does not consider you a victim, they consider you a "willing participant" in a tax fraud scheme. Therefore, that money would not be eligible for a tax deduction.

What has happened as a result of this NADN scam? Has anything been addressed and has anyone been able to prove fraud to go after the personal assets of those involved, including Mr. Cort W. Christie? You may find it close to impossible to obtain testimony from prior employees.

When I discovered that NCH and his other companies were a scam, I went to the IRS and provided all the information I had re: NCH. I turned state’s evidence and quit immediately.

At NCH, employees the management believes to be “unreliable” are dealt with. Certain employees are bugged, including their personal phones.

Christie not only has his “City Hall” contacts, but is influential at the state level. He even has influence at the federal level as his picture with President Bush proves. That was his 2006 Christmas Cards, Chrsitie’s picture with President Bush.

You will eventually win. Sooner than you may think as long as you keep up the pressure.

THE POWER TO DESTROY
IRS loses challenge to prove tax liability
Lawyer is acquitted after arguing income levy lacks legal foundation
Posted: July 26, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56855

The Internal Revenue Service has lost a lawyer's challenge in front of a jury to prove a constitutional foundation for the nation's income tax, and the victorious attorney now is setting his sights higher.

"I think now people are beginning to realize that this has got to be the largest fraud, backed up by intimidation and extortion and by the sheer force of taking peoples property and hard-earned money without any lawful authorization whatsoever," lawyer Tom Cryer told WND just days after a jury in Louisiana acquitted him of two criminal tax counts.

And before you consign him to the legions of "tin foil hat brigades" who argue against paying taxes, and then want payment to explain how to do that, he addresses the issue up front....

Although the legal citations in the case tend to run the length of paragraphs, Newsbusters explained the substance of his arguments against the federal income tax this way:

Quite simply, he proved that the definition of Income as defined by the Supreme Court is NOT income from our labor, but rather things like interest and profit. You CANNOT tax a person's labor because it is a God-given right that we may work to support ourselves.

If I charge you $500 to fix your toilet, what part of that is profit or capital gain? The answer: You cannot decipher. Therefore, you cannot tax something that is considered an equal exchange on labor. You fix my toilet, I give you $500. It is quite simple.

This could be the beginning of the end for the current tax system. I'm going to follow this closely. I have been in contact with the principals in this case for quite a while, and this does look promising. These folks are not kooks, and they may have found the key to unlock the prison we have been in for the past hundred years. Read the article and decide for yourself.